Why Some Muslim Women Don’t Wear Hijab

By Dian Kuswandini on 11:16 am Aug 15, 2012
Category Archive

First of all, I’m a believer: I’m a practicing Muslim. Second, I don’t wear hijab. And from here my story starts.

One day, a male friend tagged me on a note in Facebook; it’s about a conversation between a non-Muslim man and an Islamic cleric.

The man asks: “Why does Islam oblige Muslim women to wear hijab?”

In answering the question, the cleric takes out two candies; unwraps one of them and throws them both onto the floor. He asks: “If you have to choose, which candy will you pick?”

The man answers: “Of course I’ll take the wrapped one, because it’s the clean one.”

The cleric goes, “Indeed. In Islam, we protect our women through hijab.”

Feeling disturbed with that degrading analogy, I sent him a message.

“Do you suggest that non-hijabi Muslim women are dirty? And how come you compare women with candies?”

This guy replied, “Don’t take it to your heart. Just understand that wearing hijab is an obligation in Islam, and shouldn’t be compromised.”

It wasn’t the first time I engaged in that kind of conversation with Muslim men like him —  those with the “I’m more Muslim than you” syndrome. They thought they knew Islam better just because my appearance doesn’t “represent” Islam.

In between our debates over Qur’anic verses and hadiths (saying of the Prophet Muhammad), they always slapped me a hadith telling that non-hijabi women would be burned in hell. “Remember that,” one of them warned as if he has secured himself a place in heaven.

They even called me a follower of the Liberal Islam Network (JIL), just because I refused to be forced into wearing hijab. Never in my life I’ve joined JIL nor attended its events — I don’t even agree with many of JIL’s ideas. Yet one guy easily condemned: “You can deny you’re a JIL follower, but you act just like them, so you’re one of them.”

At least I’m not the only one to receive such a condemnation. Respected ulema and former Indonesia’s religious affairs minister Quraish Shihab was once called an agent of liberal Islam and was slew with harsh words when he released his book on hijab, which argues that Islam never strictly determines the limits of women’s awrah (body parts to be covered).

Many accused him of writing the book in favor of his non-hijabi daughter, TV presenter Najwa Shihab. In his book, “Jilbab: Pakaian Wanita Muslimah” (“Jilbab: Muslim Women Attire”), Shihab  presents different views of ulemas in the past and the present on hijab, encouraging readers to analyze this issue from many perspectives instead of following something blindly. He says Muslims should realize that there are other “menus” offered in Islam, and it’s important to note that Islam never intends to complicate its followers.

In fact, it’s Muslims themselves who complicate things by opting for the strictest views. On hijab, Shihab quotes Imam al-Syafi’i, one of the founders of Islamic jurisprudence, who said: “I cannot say — and even others with great knowledge will never say — that this (the hijab law) has been mujma’ ‘alaihi (universally agreed).”

Many Indonesian Islamic figures in the past, Shihab says, were very relaxed toward hijab. Although he didn’t precisely identify them, I can name famous figures like Buya Hamka, Mohammad Natsir and Agus Salim. Today, however, it seems like hijab is everything that counts in an Indonesian Muslim woman.

In 2007, I went undercover and lived for few days among prostitutes in a famous red light district in Jakarta for my investigative report. Several prostitutes there — mostly the senior ones — wore hijab. When I told this to those same friends, they said I shouldn’t link hijab with one’s piety and profession. Muslim women must wear hijab; their professions would be another case. So I asked, “In which part then hijab can protect women when they work as prostitutes?”

I’m not against hijab — who knows that someday I might wear it? But it’s the harsh judgments on one’s personal choices of religious practices that have made me swallow aspirins now and then. I can’t agree if some Muslims force something into others, like it’s God’s unquestionable truth. Even Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) couldn’t force his beloved uncle to embrace Islam.

Remember, something that’s forced will create nothing but hatred and antipathy. Do you realize that your silly hijab campaigns might be counter-productive and make non-hijabi women view hijab negatively?

You, Mr. “I’m more Muslim than you,” are angry if someone calls you a terrorist because you wear Arabic attire. And you say, “Don’t judge me from my clothes.” Now dear brothers, please apply your words as well to your non-hijabi sisters — don’t hold double standards.

  • Hanafi Benmaleh

    Apply cold water to burned area..

  • kierun

    And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons, their husbands’ sons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons, their sisters’ sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed. (An-Nur : 31)

  • Salahudin Sadono

    “Following something blindly”?? It’s written in the Quran if you don’t know.

    • TalkingEid

      Really? Actually I don’t know – what makes you think a woman’s hair is her ‘private parts’? Are you an Arabic scholar Salahudin? Can you explain to us how the Quran has been mistranslated into so many languages?

      • Valkyrie1604

        Eid, the guy’s just showing off! People like him often pick verses from their holy scriptures and take them out of context and when questioned can not elaborate on the issue. I call it dumb.

        I would like to inform SS that if he’s able to follow/live accordingly to what’s written in his holy scriptures then I’m a donkey.

        And, for the writer of this article, I wish to tell her that it is not “some” but many. Yes, it becomes many if they attend a religious function. Otherwise, NO!

        • MadWorld

          SS= Schutzstaffel?

          • Salahudin Sadono

            Hi, are you an Indonesian?

          • Valkyrie1604

            MW, tell the guy you’re a proponent of the Aryan race. Ha! Ha!

          • Salahudin Sadono

            Wow, I’m so touched that the aryans cared so much about Muslim’s matters. I assume you have nothing better to do. Ha! Ha! Ha!

          • Valkyrie1604

            I am sure you did not understand the exchange between MW and myself. It certainly shows, as I suspected!

          • Salahudin Sadono

            Wow, congratulations for being right at least once!

        • Salahudin Sadono

          “My holy scriptures”? So, you’re not even a Muslim? So why are you here, calling people dumb and such?

          • Valkyrie1604

            Aha! From the tone of your response, it looks like the hat fits you quite well. Must I be a Muslim to cast an opinion and why the surprise?

            Can you live according to what’s written in your holy scriptures? I hate bring a donkey but why don’t you make an effort to answer my challenge? If you follow this thread carefully, you’ll observe that another poster used the word ‘dumb.’

            SS, when you ‘sell’ something please ensure that you are familiar with the product. Other than being looked upon as being dumb, it also creates hypocrisy.

            Look once more at your response and search your conscience. Then tell me if I did not post something truthful.

          • Salahudin Sadono

            Well, don’t go blaming other believers if you can’t live according to “your” holy scriptures. Your choice, your own responsibility.

          • Salahudin Sadono

            Well, don’t go blaming other believers if you can’t live according to “your” holy scriptures. Your choice, your own responsibility.

      • Salahudin Sadono

        Quran is meant for everyone, not only for your-overrated-arabic-scholar. I don’t need to be the-so-called-arabic-scholar to understand it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/uphiedragon Uphie Abdurrahman

      There are alternative tafsir too. Islamic scholars like Nawal El-Saadawi believes that the scripture reading of “cover up yourself with cloth down to your bosom” does not have a literal meaning — instead it is metaphorical. Either way, you miss her point: don’t judge people based on their outfit. Focus on that first.

      • Dezmond Edison Christian

        Therein sits the issue Uphie with much Islamic scripture, the interpretation and compounded by no definitive global ruling body. For someone who wishes to follow an hard-line agenda they can find the words – for others who wish to follow a more liberal format the words are there too
        The problem Indonesian Muslims and infact wider face is the agenda is driven by those wishing to adopt a more conservative ‘brand’ and many of those are willing to blindly kill or violate to achieve their beliefs
        Islam in Indonesia is being taken along a route alien to many but by the time they are brave enough or abused enough to stand up it may well be too late
        This is compounded still further by a general lack of education throughout the Islamic world, the rulers need a dumb and compliant population to ensure minimum obstruction to the financial abuse – an example is the willingness to beat a couple for holding hands but turn a blind eye to corruption

        • devine

          Well said!

        • MadWorld

          Touché.

        • Salahudin Sadono

          What’s so bad about the-so-called “conservative”? And what’s so good about “liberal format”? As we can see how corrupted America is, even though they’re so “liberal”.

          • devine

            Good to know that there is no corruption in Indonesia, or at least not by the Islamic parties :) Ahhh…sorry, its another type of corruption, one that is ok… right?
            Wonder why drinking alcohol or gambling is haram and gets you caned in Aceh a but stealing trillions of the people’s money is OK…

          • Salahudin Sadono

            Of course it’s OK. It’s from the infidels.

          • devine

            So you are on the take too, Salahudin, right? And as an excuse you will tell us it is for the purpose to forward Islam…

      • Salahudin Sadono

        So what’s the “metaphorical” meaning, then? I’m so eager to know.

    • Valkyrie1604

      Not only dumb, but also blind.

      • Salahudin Sadono

        I’m really sorry to hear that. It must be hard for you to live like that.

  • Da’wah is on

    first of all, it doesn’t matter whether or not people
    complain about wearing “Jilbab” since it won’t change the rules of
    hijab in Islam.

    Secondly, rule of hijab is not simply about wearing
    “Jilbab” for women. In Islam there are six aspects of hijab (related
    to clothing) and it’s applied for both men and women, which are:

    - clothes must cover the aurah (physical body parts). For
    male, they need to cover their body from their knees to their belly button
    while for women they must cover their whole body except for hands and face,

    -clothes must not be transparent that other people can see
    through,

    -clothes must not be tight that it shows the figure of the
    body,

    -clothes must not be too glamorous that it attracts the
    opposite sex,

    -clothes of opposite sex is forbidden to be worn, and

    -clothes must not resemble signs of the unbelievers (example,
    symbols of other religions)

    • Dezmond Edison Christian

      Da’wah

      FPI protesters below – transparent, figure hugging, quite sexy I’d say –

      What followed next was most droll… As the protest went to the Palace screaming kill Corby the young ladies all slide off into Plaza Indonesia and dumped the arabic garb to reveal quite lovely young smiling faces, tight jeans and in 1 case a mini skirt

      • Salahudin Sadono

        No proof = hoax.

        • Valkyrie1604

          Are you also blind? Just look at the above picture and see what the two girls on the far right of the photo are wearing. I can not see any modesty in their attire at all.

          Now look at the far left corner and focus on the guy standing. Does he look familiar? For certain he’s not a tourist.

          I don’t believe your Almighty is happy with what you’ve done.

    • TalkingEid

      Same question to you Da’wah is on – are you a scholar of Arabic? Or simply repeating what someone has told you the Quran says?

      • Salahudin Sadono

        Why should he repeated what someone has told him what the Quran says? Everyone can read Quran. Just read it yourself.

        • Valkyrie1604

          I can’t because it’s in Arabic. Can you? BTW, please read what was posted by ‘OOPS’ I have to respect that as translations might be adulterated.

          • Salahudin Sadono

            Wow, you sure are giving up easily. I wonder if someday you’ll give up your life.

  • devine

    How simple … you don’t wear a headscarf and you are a bad Muslim (person) and you wear one and then you are a good one…
    No wonder all the bad things, foremost corruption, continues in our country….
    ___
    And since only about 10-15 years ago almost NOBODY wore a headscarf, means that now most are good people and before all bad….

    • TalkingEid

      Indeed Devine – creeping Arabisation of Indonesia

  • http://al-terity.blogspot.com/ Alterity

    Wear what you like. End of discussion.

  • abelardev

    Hi, I’m not a feminist nor an extremist. I do even wear a hijab while writing this comment. I’m a Muslim myself, and I’ve worn hijab for about two months by now. Let’s say that I’m still dull about Islam, I’m still a learner, and what I’m about to write is just a personal experience.
    I just think that I got Kuswandini’s point of being so offended because of the hijabi thingy. I didn’t just vicariously think that way, but I used to be in her feet. Before I wore hijab, my old brother kept telling me that not wearing hijab is a violation of Islamic rules.. and I’m not a dutiful follower because of that. How shameful I was! Didn’t he make me thought that I was such a dirt in our religion, that I was not worth to be appreciated as Muslimah?

    Did I ever want to wear hijab after his saying? Believe me: no, not at all. All I kept thinking was, “Why Islam is so forceful and shockingly unfair because it doesn’t let us, girls, to choose what we want to wear? Isn’t–for what I’ve believed in for years–Islam a religion about loving and sharing?”

    What made me decide to wear hijab then? My dad. I asked my dad why Muslim girls must wear hijab. My dad, shockingly gave me a sophistry answer, “You must not to. You must choose to. Allah asks you to, but life is always about choosing.”

    Do you feel the difference between my brother’s and my dad’s saying? My dad’s is a relief for me. There is no force to practice Islam, you just have to voluntarily choose to practice it well. Finally I made my own volition. To voluntarily take hijab as a part of me.. all in all, by my will.

    We, Muslims, need to know that we can not keep offending our brothers and sisters in practicing religion or it can be our own divider. Instead, we need to show the world that all Muslims are brothers and they love each other. We can remind our brothers if they do something wrong, but we can’t just dictate and punish them for what they do not know. We, Muslims, can always remind our sisters to wear hijab, but we can’t force them to. Reminding does not equal to humiliate, to irritate, or to unjustly vex. Remember: Islam is never forceful. It is about sincere–ikhlas–not brought about by coercion. Show the world that Islam is precious!

    • devine

      No… your story tells that it was NOT of your free will but because of brainwashing… feel sorry for you! But then it is ok too… guess it feels good now to walk around in Arabic attire (import) in multi-cultural Indonesia…

      ___

      And… your quote “we need to show the world that all Muslims are brothers”… are you sure you are a brother? I guess you are actually not a girl at all…

      • Salahudin Sadono

        In other comments you’re shouting about how women should be free to do what they feel like. Yet now you’re yelling at someone who weared hijab because of her own will. Congratulations on your double-standard!

    • devine

      “Show the world that Islam is precious”…. how about PEACEFUL and ANTI-CORRUPT first…?
      A hijab does NOT make you a good person… much much more is needed for that and, just a hint, it has NOTHING to do with clothing…

      • Voxclara

        Wasn’t this topic appeared some weeks ago? Weird that it is made current.

        • devine

          It is from the JG Archive, 15.8.2012…

          • TalkingEid

            Slow day at the JG I guess.

      • Salahudin Sadono

        Why should you scream? Turn the capslock off please. And of course being a good person has everything to do with clothing. You won’t wear a slutty outfit to a church, right.

  • devine

    Obviously you never had a smorgasbord…! Try it first and then post again… and just a hint… there is NOTHING sinful about a smorgasbord…

  • devine

    Wrong Rajiv! Lucky that many Muslims disagree with you! And if you have not noticed yet (see your quotes), we are not Arabics but Indonesian here…

    ___

    And… as to your “in order for it to be known that she is a free woman and so not to be exposed to any harm”… are you aware how many veiled women are raped and misused in the Islamic world every day??? Very obviously not…

    • Salahudin Sadono

      Many Muslims? Veiled women are raped in the Islamic world every day? The statistic please? Or don’t bother to show it, because I believe you won’t be able to show it. Don’t talk without proofs.

      And Rajiv never said that the verse is mentioned for the Arabs. Read again.

      • Duncan

        Rape cases in Pakistan reported by The Express Tribune
        (A Pakistani news paper)

        Note 2 things , the number of children raped and also
        the amount of Islamic officials involved. I chose Pakistan because most women are covered. Please google Pakistan’s
        ‘shame’: Rape cases in 2012 For the full and massive list – here’s a few to give you a flavor

        Political worker accused of raping Hindu girl A 14-year-old Hindu girl, N, was raped allegedly by a local leader of the Pakistan
        Peoples Party (PPP).

        Heinous crime: ‘Child rapist, murderer’ arrested Accused first raped and then strangled the girl. He left her body behind a local school and fled.

        Strange but true: Police register rape case against eight-year-old Mankera police in Bhakkar arrested him for allegedly raping two women.

        Under attack: Journalists threatened for reporting
        rape caseReporter received threatening calls for reporting the rape of a six-year-old girl in Meghwadh colony.

        Abuse: Five-year-old girl allegedly raped The girl
        went missing while she was playing on the street outside her house.

        Raped for seeking justice Cruelty seems to know no
        bounds in our country with even fewer regards given to basic human rights.

        Five peasant girls gang-raped for ‘demanding
        wages’Five peasant girls were gang raped by their employers, because the girls asked them for their wages.

        Police rape — a grave failure The gang-rape case of a
        13-year-old female child victim in Ratta Amral, Rawalpindi, spoke of the baseness of human nature.

        I refer you to the recent report by Konmas detailing 50% of Indonesian children are sexually abused …

  • MadWorld

    The more you are engaged in a discussion with a pious moslim, the dumber they become.

    • Salahudin Sadono

      I’d prefer being dumb than being said that I am smart by a madman.

      • Valkyrie1604

        But you protested when I insinuated about being a dumb? Now, you admit a preference to being dumb? The proof is in the pudding….I mean the postings.

      • Good,Bad and Ugly

        You will note that very few of us are madmen. Unless of course it is simply because they question your blind faith and unquestioning obedience to something which you cannot and do not wish to prove.
        I love listening to (edited) people.

        • Salahudin Sadono

          I’d prefer having a blind faith than being called open-minded by (edited) people.

        • Salahudin Sadono

          I’d prefer having a blind faith than being called open-minded by (edited) people.

          • Valkyrie1604

            Are you aware of what you posted? Once again, it’s showing.

          • TalkingEid

            epic ‘fail’

      • mauriceg

        Ah, the old chestnut of labeling kafirs as madmen, and unworthy, and less than Muslims. Well, I’m a kafir. I’ve had a good education, and while not the smartest kid on the block, have a brain that gets regular exercise. I use the sense of right and wrong with which all of us are born (although many Muslims have that particular skill beaten out of them), giving rise to answers such as the above.

        • Salahudin Sadono

          Congratulations! You’ve just wasted your “good education” by commenting here.

          • MadWorld

            Empty pots make the most noise (vasa vana plurimum sonant).
            So does empty head.

      • mauriceg

        Ah, the old chestnut of labeling kafirs as madmen, and unworthy, and less than Muslims. Well, I’m a kafir. I’ve had a good education, and while not the smartest kid on the block, have a brain that gets regular exercise. I use the sense of right and wrong with which all of us are born (although many Muslims have that particular skill beaten out of them), giving rise to answers such as the above.

  • jakarta

    Hi Dian, I am a moslem too, believer and practicing Islam , insya Allah. Yes, it is true that islamic rule regarding hijab has not been agreed by all of the ulemas due to various interpretations. And yes, no one can force you to wear hijab if you don’t want to, and no one can force you to believe an interpretation if you disagree with it. This apply to every moslems including you. So, you also can’t say that women who cover all of her body and are following something blindly, wrong, or brainwashed because that is how they interpret islam, and that is the way they show their devotion to Allah.

    The major mistake in many moslem women today is that they don’t wear hijab not because they’ve already known varios tafsir nor they observe it, but just because they don’t care about it at all. We know that the first principle of islam is shahadat in which we express our deepest sincerity to accept Quran and Sunnah rules. If you’ve already learnt all the refferences and come to a conclusion that hijab is not obliged, and you completely confident that Allah will recognize your reason, why should you feel offended by those who force you different perspective?

    • DianKuswandini

      Where did you find I MADE a conclusion that hijab is not an obligation? and I DID NOT say that “women who cover all of her body and are following something blindly,
      wrong, or brainwashed because that is how they interpret islam, and
      that is the way they show their devotion to Allah.” –> Fitnah lebih kejam daripada pembunuhan :)
      And there’s nothing wrong with being offended. It’s very humane. It’s something normal. Don’t u get offended yourself in life? :) I’m offended the same way a hijabi gets offended because she’s not respected for her choice to wear hijab :) The same way a football lover is teased for watching men running across the field just for a ball (I’m a football lover btw) :) You know, it could be a big, or a small thing. We’re offended because we’re undervalued for following our choices, especially when someone FORCES his/her religious value to us :) Won’t you get offended when a Christian forces you to eat pork, when you’ve already learnt all the refferences and come to a conclusion that pork is haram? :)

  • Roland

    Sorry to mention it – but this is an old article, formerly found at the blog section (it’s actually from August 2012) and Mr Rajiv at this time had an excellent time quoting from certain web sites. Also what now,, with the new thread which started after the new format of JG, is that he insisted in multiple posts that actually Islamic women are only allowed to look through one eye and that the other one needs to be covered too.

    Now, ‘abelardev’ he quoted very clearly from the Koran – are you ready to do that too?

    • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

      ROland, sorry to bother but since you seem to be an expert on this Rijiv what is he saying in his quote below:

      Rajiv a day ago

      “Wearing the jilbab or the hijab complete with full covering except the eyes are essential for all Muslimin without exception.”

      Is he promoting that all Muslims wear hijab?

      • MadWorld

        Rajiv was elaborating better to have one-eyed women than a women blinded by the cover of a cloth in front of her eyes. If women are covered totally, can’t see a damn thing, it is like the blind leading the blind.

        • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

          Ok, I thought, his statement was promoting that ALL muslims wear the hijab becuase that is what his original statement did and still does say. Someone should teach Rijiv about the edit function but then worrying about what Muslims wear must be higher up on his list.

  • devine

    Because being a good Muslim has nothing to do with wearing or not wearing a hijab…

  • tony

    If Quran talks about LGBT, free sex , or drinking alcohol, you will say can be mistranslated, conditional, has metaphoric meaning. But if it talks about war, than you will say it has no other meaning but clear literal dictation. I got it as your constant style.

    • TalkingEid

      If Quran doesn’t talk about internet – why are you posting here? Are you a ‘bad’ Muslim?

  • tony

    You have to prove it with related datas to support your accusation.
    I’m reminding.

    • Botak

      Only read read the Jakarta Globe everyday or watch the news. Everyday there are rape cases here in Indonesia.Kids, small kids, woman, teenagers and even grand mothers get raped. This should be enough prove.

      And honestly it doesn’t matter if they wear their headgear or not, it’s the men not able to control their lust. I don’t think wearing a hijab will reduce the rape-cases.

      Human live seems always to be about control. And the most are following the necessaries power games, to gain this control and power over others.

      Woman are precious and deliver more to live than males. They are stronger than us, so we need to control them, so that nobody can see our weaknesses.

      This also counts for woman:

      ” Children are born as giants,
      – However, with every day they awake, a piece of their strength gets lost,
      – We do something that makes them smaller.
      – Children are so long invincibly, until the vicious circle begins.
      – Until they like us adult-dwarfs, finally as small as we big ones are! “

    • Valkyrie1604

      Hello! Hello~! you read the news? I don’t need statistics from ‘devine’ to substantiate his post. Almost every intelligent poster on this board knows that for a fact.

    • Duncan

      I posted info – you just failed to see it
      REPOST

      Rape cases in Pakistan reported by The Express Tribune
      (A Pakistani news paper)

      Note 2 things , the number of children raped and also
      the amount of Islamic officials involved. I chose Pakistan because most women are covered. Please google Pakistan’s
      ‘shame’: Rape cases in 2012 For the full and massive list – here’s a few to give you a flavor

      Political worker accused of raping Hindu girl A 14-year-old Hindu girl, N, was raped allegedly by a local leader of the Pakistan
      Peoples Party (PPP).

      Heinous crime: ‘Child rapist, murderer’ arrested Accused first raped and then strangled the girl. He left her body behind a local school and fled.

      Strange but true: Police register rape case against eight-year-old Mankera police in Bhakkar arrested him for allegedly raping two women.

      Under attack: Journalists threatened for reporting
      rape caseReporter received threatening calls for reporting the rape of a six-year-old girl in Meghwadh colony.

      Abuse: Five-year-old girl allegedly raped The girl
      went missing while she was playing on the street outside her house.

      Raped for seeking justice Cruelty seems to know no
      bounds in our country with even fewer regards given to basic human rights.

      Five peasant girls gang-raped for ‘demanding
      wages’Five peasant girls were gang raped by their employers, because the girls asked them for their wages.

      Police rape — a grave failure The gang-rape case of a
      13-year-old female child victim in Ratta Amral, Rawalpindi, spoke of the baseness of human nature.

      I refer you to the recent report by Konmas detailing 50% of Indonesian children are sexually abused. AKA RAPE

  • Wong Edan

    “but why didn’t you blame the woman, becaus she attracted the man with her clothing.” You idiot. This is why a growing number of people detest your religion – it gives rise to this kind of misogynistic belief…

    • Valkyrie1604

      Nicely said Wong, but I am wondering how you got away with that word. Appropriately used, though.

    • Valkyrie1604

      Nicely said Wong, but I am wondering how you got away with that word. Appropriately used, though.

  • Valkyrie1604

    I agree! It’s very boring!

  • Valkyrie1604

    I’ve yet to read about a rape situation at a nudists colony. Anyone please? Dirty thoughts, dirty minds and finally dirty deeds. It’s all in your head. So, watch the other head that it moves in the correct direction.

  • Valkyrie1604

    I call that false piety. Quite close to hypocrisy.

  • PakLe

    I think that in Indonesia there’s a direct correlation between jilbab-wearing, wealth and education. Wealthier, better educated, and therefore freer-thinking women are less likely to wear a jilbab. Poorer, under-educated women are far more likely to look to religion (and religious ‘scholars’) to tell them what to do, what to think, how to behave, and what to wear. Anyone disagree?

    We could argue all day long about what the book says about it – conservatives will interpret it one way, liberals another. That’s the case with all holy books. And it’s the case that most religions benefit from lower levels of education – critical thought is the enemy of the religion industry.

    • Valkyrie1604

      That’s an argument against a post from ‘purgelies’….”critical thought is the enemy of religion industry.” I’m not so sure I can agree to religion being an industry though. In any case, I support fully what you stated about how inclined the poor and down trodden are towards influence from religious scholars. Fear of being labelled a ‘bad Muslim’ is all they are concerned with.

      I once posted a similar opinion concerning this. What’s the percentage of illiterates in this country? I guess it’s quite substantial. This group will adhere to ANY religious instructions handed down to them from their religious guides. The Pied Piper of Hamelin in some ways?

      • Dirk

        PKS is not an industry? The leaders are seen as holy while becoming very rich through you-know-what.

      • Dirk

        PKS is not an industry? The leaders are seen as holy while becoming very rich through you-know-what.

  • http://twitter.com/14insa Arief Kurniawan

    wearing hijab is mentioned in Koran. “every women in Islam must wear their hijab until cover their chest.” and Koran is the highest constitution in Islam, like UUD 1945. so, if you just pick a piece of quote from imam or sheikh you know without understand the content (Koran), it’s same with walking in dark road without a lantern. just a stupid idea.

    next, I don’t even believe Imam Syafi’i will write quote like that. Syafi’i is the most strict ulama in their generation, have memorized Koran and a lot of hadits since young. please show which the part of his book he write it. I’ll very happy if you can show it to me.

    and a lot of reason why this article just so stupid. double-standard? please correct your statement and keep looking the world you know, OK?

    • fran

      koran & hadith are different book. so on Zabur and Gospel. Those book are recommended to read in Islam. Dont hate any.

  • Valkyrie1604

    Maybe someone came up with the idea to improve sales? C’mon do some maths here. Multiply the numbers that wear. Good business too!

  • TalkingEid

    “a man, saw a woman walking alone in a street, exposing most of her body, if a crime happened, who would you blame?” – I would blame the man – as would anyone with half a brain.

  • TalkingEid

    DrDez – ‘think before you reply”? They don’t use reason – it is forbidden – might as well try to argue about colors with a blind man.

  • rustynails

    “we can judge someone is a soldier by his green outfit and his attitude.” Not even close to the truth, most uniformed men in Indonesia are bullies and thugs as evidenced by their daily brutality on Indonesian citizens (and we won’t even mention their murderous activities in Tim Tim or Papua). They may dress as Soldiers but the truth is the vast majority are an insult to the profession of arms.

  • MadWorld

    You are a lucky man Rajiv, that the Prophet still allows women to open one eye. So they can see what kind of hypocrisy (edited) you are.

  • Good,Bad and Ugly

    Is that your logic? You have to convince your ‘women’ to dress properly so that the men will act properly?
    You sound as though you want to take the blame away from the man and blame the women for wanting freedom and liberty.
    Learn civilised ethics and common decency.

  • Salahudin Sadono

    I never said that putting a headscarf will automatically make you a better person. Please learn to not putting words into someone’s mouth. If you learned that, come back and we will discuss again.

  • Salahudin Sadono

    You failed to see everything.

  • Salahudin Sadono

    What question?

    • devine

      About the definition of “slutty” outfit…

      • Voxclara

        Slutty outfit: wearing an Islamic headscarf but with very tight body hugging outfit. Seen plenty of this in the mall…

        • TalkingEid

          Vox – you can also try trawling the internet – I think a few posters here will get a cheap thrill if they search the term “hijab sex” – no doubt though the results will only show ‘not REAL Muslims’.

          • Valkyrie1604

            Eid,, so Tif did not complete his homework. No wonder the PKS are in deep shi*.

          • Valkyrie1604

            Jeez, I forgot to mention that Tif is also from the PKS. Oops! Now the Minister lied to the KPK about knowing/meeting Fat. When questioned by the prosecutors he answered….I forgot!

            SS + Rajiv

            What have you to say about this guy, a minister lying?

          • Salahudin Sadono

            Why ask me? His lies, his sins. lol.

        • Salahudin Sadono

          Yeah..

  • devine

    Well, the statement of “her own will” came from you… see your above post… and I am saying that her decision did not come her own, free will but the choice is pushed onto her… i.e by telling women that they are “slutty” if not wearing this or that…
    ___
    And by the way, no other major religion makes you dress in a certain way day in day out…

    • Salahudin Sadono

      Well they’re hypocrites then. Wearing nun outfit when going to church but wearing bikini when go jogging.

    • Salahudin Sadono

      Well they’re hypocrites then. Wearing nun outfit when going to church but wearing bikini when go jogging.

      • Valkyrie1604

        You were watching someone jogging in a bikini outfit? Now, that’s being honest. I trust you have a good sense of imagination, but, watch the adrenalin flow.

        • Salahudin Sadono

          I’d prefer watching someone swimming in a jogging outfit.

          • Valkyrie1604

            Now you’re being silly. Anyway, it’s your preference and a weird one in fact.

      • MadWorld

        Living in EU sinds 1970, never seen joggers in Bikini except in my wildest dream, hohoho.

        • Valkyrie1604

          MW….wet or dry?

        • Salahudin Sadono

          hohoho, merry christmas! Now, why are you reading “Jakarta” globe?

          • MadWorld

            What has christmas to do with it. We are discussing jogging in bikini, and in December it’s winter in EU (except in the southern hemisphere), temperature going zero degrees, then the European started wearing hijab to keep them warm.
            I think you are brain dead by the next discussion.
            Why Am I reading Jakarta Globe,wel, It have A non-Sunni-moslim forum,&, I like to see how Indonesia is progressing?
            To keep my brain posted.

          • Guest

            in love with indonesia? read jakartaglobe from a beautiful town in eu :)

          • Valkyrie1604

            Don’t know about MW, but I read JG for reliable information and at times to enjoy reading foolish postings from people such as you.

          • Guest

            good reason, have spare time to study quran?

  • Salahudin Sadono

    Why did the cavemen only wear minimum outfit centuries ago then…? Please explain…

    • MadWorld

      Because Muhammad was born outside the cave.

  • Salahudin Sadono

    Why did the cavemen only wear minimum outfit centuries ago then…? Please explain…

  • TalkingEid

    Since when? Other religions posit the idea of free will very strongly Salahudin. That’s why they stress that ‘goodness’ is a matter of individual conscience.

  • TalkingEid

    Since when? Other religions posit the idea of free will very strongly Salahudin. That’s why they stress that ‘goodness’ is a matter of individual conscience.

    • Salahudin Sadono

      Just pick the “other religions” then. They won’t tell you to wear hijab. Simple.

  • TalkingEid

    It’s not missed by non-Muslims Salahudin – and in his birthplace Kemal Attaturk is known as ‘the father of the nation” and is generally acknowledged as a very wise ruler, both in Turkey and the rest of the civilized world. Only those who yearn for some kind of despotic theocracy hate him.

  • TalkingEid

    It’s not missed by non-Muslims Salahudin – and in his birthplace Kemal Attaturk is known as ‘the father of the nation” and is generally acknowledged as a very wise ruler, both in Turkey and the rest of the civilized world. Only those who yearn for some kind of despotic theocracy hate him.

  • TalkingEid

    No point in using reason to discuss irrational beliefs. Include me out.

    • MadWorld

      Make the two of us !

      • http://twitter.com/14insa Arief Kurniawan

        honestly, three of us.

  • TalkingEid

    No point in using reason to discuss irrational beliefs. Include me out.

  • Valkyrie1604

    Vox….WOW!

  • Valkyrie1604

    MW, I am still trying to understand that jibber-jabber.

  • Valkyrie1604

    You’re going deeper into the abyss of idiocy. Maybe the Prophet disallowed it but God gave men ‘free will.’ Hence the beginning of your Faith.

  • Valkyrie1604

    What do you expect from someone (I’ve posted it a couple of times actually) who’s DUMB?

  • MadWorld

    If I do not have a religion, will you leave me at peace, in what I am wearing, doing, eating,??? I don’t think so, because you area munafik.

    • Salahudin Sadono

      Of course I will find you, and I won’t let you live peacefully. Lol, what a waste of time. You’re not even worth it.

  • MadWorld

    If you wish to go hiding, you can stay at my house in EU.

  • Roland

    Whoaaah, that’s by far the weirdest contribution in regards of the discussion regarding the hijab IMHO – sorry ‘Laviathan’ …

  • Duncan

    of course saying you dont have a religion gets you 5 years in jail or death by the Muslim mob in Indo

  • Valkyrie1604

    Can anyone, honestly tell the gender of these people in the photo?
    Remember the famous Noordin M Top? The guy with a lacerated anus? Well, I believe he got around wearing something close to this.

  • Valkyrie1604

    Can anyone, honestly tell the gender of these people in the photo?
    Remember the famous Noordin M Top? The guy with a lacerated anus? Well, I believe he got around wearing something close to this.

  • Dirk

    Very few Indonesians read the Koran, even in translation. Just for fun, ask an Indonesian Muslim what the Koran says about Jesus.
    “Ngaji” is just sounding out the words without understanding them, basically mantra.

  • Dirk

    Very few Indonesians read the Koran, even in translation. Just for fun, ask an Indonesian Muslim what the Koran says about Jesus.
    “Ngaji” is just sounding out the words without understanding them, basically mantra.

  • Dirk

    I have noticed several instances of pickpocketing and fraud in Jakarta being committed by women wearing jilbabs, not just in the news but also a friend was victimized on an angkot.

    • devine

      And some sneak out of prison this way…

      • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

        You mean men dressed as women in a hijab, got to be something perverted about that.

        • Valkyrie1604

          Noordin M Top!

  • Dirk

    I have noticed several instances of pickpocketing and fraud in Jakarta being committed by women wearing jilbabs, not just in the news but also a friend was victimized on an angkot.

  • Valkyrie1604

    Where are they? love to join you. :-)

  • Valkyrie1604

    Where are they? love to join you. :-)

  • Valkyrie1604

    Bravo! Bravo! Duncan. Truly enjoyed reading your post (twice)

  • Valkyrie1604

    DON’T start spinning and stick to the thread. You’ve run out of lies. In other words, plain and simple….stop bull[edit].

  • Valkyrie1604

    I agree with you Rajiv. Totally agree with you without ANY reservations because in this country, there are many, many apostates. This is predicating upon what you claim..

  • Valkyrie1604

    You can’t because you’re so dumb.

    • Salahudin Sadono

      Then you are dumber and the two of us can make a good movie.

  • Valkyrie1604

    So, if the Prophet practiced it then why this big hoo-ha over the guy who has eight wives? You like to tell this to MUI?

    • Salahudin Sadono

      Tell that yourself.

  • Valkyrie1604

    I can’t believe it! You’re being honest. Now, are you willing to condemn the FPI and others who are guilty?

    • Salahudin Sadono

      Go ahead condemning them. Or are you only brave on the internet?

  • devine

    Thanks for the link, Roland. Quite some shocking information there…

  • Maliki

    Dear Ms. Dian, I really wish that those unpleasant experiences wouldn’t even discourage u for finding the truth in Islam…Islam taught every moslem to encourage people with wisdom and beatiful preaching (16:125) . I realize how hard to do so, but I believe every moslem would strive their best for this. I hope you wear hijab very soon and spread the beauty of Islam on your own..Wassalaamu’alaikum

    • antifreeze

      Perhaps you could enlighten us as to why God created facial features/ sex organs ( complete with foreskins and clitoral appendages) and even head hair if these things are meant to be hidden or excised? I realize that these edicts are not to be questioned religiously, but then why did he even give us brains to do so?

      • MadWorld

        God give us brain to think ,to adapt & on the right place, Allah sometime give brain on a dystopian place.

    • MadWorld

      Your God is not my God.

    • DianKuswandini

      Thank you very much, but this is how I spread the beauty of Islam: Islam will be more beautiful with less judgmental people :) Please note that although I’m not a hijabi, I’m initiating the hijab community in Paris, France, where muslim women have lost their fully right to wear hijab.

  • MadWorld

    A discovery channel A Real Blind Date, !

  • MadWorld

    Now you are talking sense.

  • Salahudin Sadono

    The things that you said might be wrong, might be wrong too. lol.

  • Salahudin Sadono

    What? What really happened? Ooh I’m so eager to know!

  • Salahudin Sadono

    kemal attaturk failed then. lol.

  • Botak

    In favor of Salahudin!

    starting reading the post from the start, I can’t see any insulting in his posts until the point when he needed to defend himself.

    He admitted that he is an conservative Muslim, but he isn’t a radical.

    The most of us here are against the religious intolerance here in Indonesia. But for this we also shouldn’t forget to be tolerant.

    Salahudin didn’t try to force his believe on anyone. He only mentioned his view and what he believes. He didn’t try to prove us wrong and he is only standing up to his believe, what I personal respect. Salahudin got his own believe and his own view of it. From where he got it doesn’t matters , same for me and the rest of us.

    we don’t have to agree with somebodies point and believe system, but at least if we can accept and respect that everyone got his own believe system we are having a great start for religious tolerance.

    And one thing speaks for Salahudin, he didn’t start hiding, he is backing up HIS believe system, compared to Rajiv who always will start hiding when he run out of arguments.

  • devine

    :)

  • Salahudin Sadono

    Yes I do.

    • MadWorld

      Tell me who am I?? for example start with my education, compare it with yours. Then we talk.

      • Salahudin Sadono

        Well… you didn’t graduate from kidergarten… and, umm…

  • http://twitter.com/14insa Arief Kurniawan

    first, correct your statement. before they are caught in operation, they are never wear “holy masks”. you can see Nazaruddin wife photo in the past. is she use a hijab? no. and also the others. but, when they are caught by KPK, why they are using mask simultaneously? why? embarassing, I guess…

    second, don’t you know about sex scandal in church? yeah, we are human, we are never perfect, because God is the only one. wearing hijabs or become a cleric/sister never guarantee us to be a good Muslim/Christian. but, this is not about become good in our religion. this is about following the religion, following the order, and indirectly become good follower in our religion. imagine it: if we don’t obey even a slightly order in religions, how we can say ourselves are “good servant?” I don’t understand about Christianity, but I believe, Jesus will be very sad if their lamb don’t follow His order, their God order. CMIIW.

    and never talk about other religion you don’t believe. this is “our” religion, ant that’s “your” religion. we can live in modern world, open-mind world, freedom world. but, can’t we respect others privacy (in this case: wearing hijab for muslim sisters)? can’t we respect other religions?

  • MadWorld

    You mean it was destined for high society moslem women, now, to day, hijacked by despicable women of the lower class.

  • MadWorld

    Endless sex & ALCOHOL, are you serious? Viagra too?

  • MadWorld

    Here comes Rajiv, Olé

  • Salahudin Sadono

    I hope you have taken your medicines :)

  • Wayan, PIA

    that is the key point girl that many posters are making, in that rather than taking responsibility for his behavior, the man, whom the holy Qur’an deems superior to women, should be shielded from temptation by hiding away the temptation instead of facing up to it and dealing with it as a civilized human
    Thus you as a women are subjugated for them and not for any noble reason or for reasons of faith. The mere fact you feel the want to post demonstrates just how deep the inequality and indoctrination runs
    Wayan

  • Dunc

    nothing to do with the Cypriot issues them?

  • http://twitter.com/sherrydear gejag

    Hypocrits

  • Kay

    So how about you Dian Kuswandini, what is your reason for not putting the veil on? Well i believe you already know the main rule of covering yourself, even men should do the same.

    Instead you ask why some women dont wear it, ask why many intrllectual women do wear it?

    Salam

    • DianKuswandini

      sorry, but I didn’t ask why some Muslim don’t wear hijab. The title of this writing wasn’t come from me :) My original title is: “The ‘I’m More Muslim Than You Syndrome’” :)

  • Darren1

    Hmm… Reminds me of the following in the Bible: “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.” (Leviticus 25:44-46)

    Or this… “As you approach a town to attack it, first offer
    its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may
    keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.” (Deuteronomy
    20:10-14)

  • Muffinman

    I like the one in green. Obviously an environmentalist. She’s hot !

  • Rajiv

    WebEd, I am re posting the below for the 2nd time, why was it is not published?

    What Aisha the Ummul Mu’minin (the mother of all believers) the beloved wife of our holy Prophet SAW said regarding the use of a face veil?

    Hadith : Bukhari # 282
    Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba:`Aisha used to say: “When (the Verse): “They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,” was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces.”

    Tafseer – Ibn Katheer
    “Allah commanded the muslim women to cover this sheet on top of them to cover their bodies except one eye, when it is necessary for them to come out of their homes.”

    It is mandatory for all Muslimahs to cover up from head to toe even their faces as Aisha the mother of all believers herself observed and no doubt covered up. It is the command of Allah SWT.

    Some posters accuse me of hiding when I can’t come up with any answers. PROVE IT ! However I see no point in responding to insults.

    Others say I post my interpretation. It is not my interpretation but that of the Islamic scholars. If the Noble Qu’ran says you should cover up, if the Hadith clearly says you should cover up, if the most beloved wife of our holy Prophet SAW, Aisha the mother of all believers observed that Muslimahs covered up, then as a good Muslimah you have no choice but to cover up as instructed.

    • devine

      “The Prophet married ‘Aisha before she had reached puberty
      and consummated the marriage when she was approximately 9 years old..” Hardly a chance to choose by herself at the ago of 9?! Beside that, since modern times people that “consumate” 9year olds are called phedophiles and go to jail…

      • Rajiv

        Ms devine, what’s Aisha’s age got to do with her observation of the face veil ? Aren’t you trying to be insulting? I know, you profess to be Christian the follower of Jesus son of Mary. Is this how you are taught to behave by your religion?

        • devine

          This whole threat is about if women are free or not to choose to wear a vail. Trying to be insulting? In what way? By stating facts?

          You know that I am a Christian? How would you know?

          ___

          What I am saying is, that certain things are different today, i.e. that you are a phedophile if you have sex with underage people and hence a criminal nowadays. Same if you keep slaves as the holy Prophet SAW did. I hope you agree on that… !?

          If we fully follow what the holy Prophet SAW said (as you propose), would it then not be normal to have sex with underaged and holding slaves?

          And if not, why is it then that we MUST follow some things what the holy Prophet SAW said (i.e. veil) and other things not…???

          • Valkyrie1604

            Precisely what I am thinking. (beat me to that) Ahem! Then they should not be issuing an edict against that guy “Subur” with 7 wives?
            Etc., etc., etc.,

          • MadWorld

            8 or 7, does it matter, the older wives sit on the advisory board, the younger one got the fun.

          • Valkyrie1604

            To me it does not, but they are going to gun that guy down.

          • Tatanka

            Good argument and logical.

      • semak pagar

        im a moslem and it is clear that the story Aisha is 9 is silly story, eveen you can find that possibly aisha is 34yrs old, real islam is not based on this stories, it is the Quran all should be based

        • TalkingEid

          tut tut – saying the Holy Qur’an is not all literally correct? Better watch out………

          • semak pagar

            i do not care you believe quran or not talkingeid, you can choose quran or choose the silly story, but it is clear here that you believe the silly story and it means you in reality is a sunni religion practicionerhaha

          • devine

            If you dont agree better start arguing with Rajiv…

          • MadWorld

            Are you suggesting to start a Holy war?

    • semak pagar

      rajiv, how come you declare yourself a moslem and believe the silly stories collected and categorizEd by bukhary? why not you follow the quran alone? if you follow the quran alone then youll get it that quran didnt say anythibg about a rigid dress code for everyone

  • Chemink

    i wanna put this article on my blog, I believe in islam/moslem, i believe in Allah and i pray but i am not wearing hijab/veil, probably someday. But the main point is We just need to be a good person and live our life in a positive way. No matter what your religion is.

  • Hooswho

    I have made a conscious decision not to wear a hijab – it makes my beard itch

    My wife has reached the same conclusion – it makes her beard itch too!!

  • Darren1

    Checked it – nothing about sex or virgins. 37:40 says “But not the chosen servants of Allah” 37:41 and :42 mention fruits, not virgins.

    In 33:50 and :51 – ” (50) Thou canst defer whom thou wilt of them and receive unto thee whom thou wilt, and whomsoever thou desirest of those whom thou hast set aside (temporarily), it is no sin for thee (to receive her again); that is better; that they may be comforted and not grieve, and may all be
    pleased with what thou givest them. Allah knoweth what is in your hearts (O men), and Allah is ever Forgiving, Clement. (51) It is not allowed thee to take (other) women henceforth, nor that thou shouldst change them for other wives even though their beauty pleased thee, save those whom thy right hand possesseth. And Allah is ever Watcher over all things.”

    Nothing about free sex, says cannot take other wives, and that wives should be happy ‘ “that they may be comforted and not grieve, and may all be pleased…”

  • lost.in.translation

    covering women up doesn’t protect them or prevent them from being a rape target. if the dirty mind is there, we’re still not protecting them from anything

  • Valkyrie1604

    They are known as “Ibrahim” “Musa” and “Nuh”. Jesus was referred to as “Isa”. You will note that the Holy Bible both OT and NT were written long before the Koran. As I remember, Islam of old forbid any translations of their scriptures. No other language except Arabic. I believe you are able to outsource translations now but to my knowledge that is actually forbidden. Perhaps someone knowledgeable can confirm this?

    Current day Christians often use the RSV. The Saint James version of the Old Testament are used for references.

    It is totally impossible to follow what’s written in the OT. I am no Bible scholar but I do have the presence of mind to choose what’s appropriate for our time.

    I enjoyed stories about Noah during my childhood days. All pairs of animals including the swine.

  • Valkyrie1604

    I’ve seen them in Singapore too! Not too many though.

  • TalkingEid

    slipping into a coma now…………….

  • MadWorld

    Taliban style Miss World Pageant.
    To prevent the jury to become horny.

  • MadWorld

    You mean freedom of religion?

    Mind your own business !

    But why are the MUI,FPI,HTI,FUI,Garis,Kisdi,DDII,GPMI,JAT, to name just a few start prosecuting/proselytizing other beliefs?

  • TGIF

    Let’s change the subject to certain animals approved by the Muslims faith for example cats as the preferred domestic animal. People have said that the Muslim Prophet loved cats therefore dogs are frowned upon today in certain Muslim countries. Dogs are cleaner than cats. Cats would actually spread more diseases if not taken care of. Dogs interact well with human beings. However, this capital needs to curb the cat population.

    The hijab is a personal choice, wearing certain religious garb or symbols won’t make anyone pious nor humble. If one has a rotten heart to the core, the exterior image may be deceiving no matter how one would conceal it’s appearance.

    • semak pagar

      how come people based the moslem teaching to silly stories made 200-300yrs after Muhammad dead? ie. dog and cat, Quran never said anything about cat but said about the some moslem men run from persecution of niceane early christian trinity persecution, they slept in the cave for 300 plus 9 years with their dog, so the moslem/righteous really have dogs in their life, it a common thing. and also how come people believe the contradictive verse by verse of present bible?

  • TypicalJoe

    Why don’t some Muslim women not wear hijab? Pretty simple. Because some of them choose not to.

  • beni

    Congratulations.Very nicely composed.

  • TGIF

    Because they all believe that Jesus was a Jew. Well no need to elaborate because it would be hard to explain logically to those who read the koran and follow the Islamic faith.

  • TGIF

    Valkyrie…Some do acknowledge Jesus but it is just one of many prophets for them. It may also be a translation problem just like some passages in any religious text. Jesus as interpreted by the Christians as the son of God may just be a misunderstanding for them that has spread like wildfires across centuries. Well think about it.

    • Valkyrie1604

      Thinking…….

      They all acknowledge, not some, but Jesus is always left out in their sermons or scriptural quotes. I have not paid much attention to what was written in the Quran about Jesus. One thing I know is that Muslims deny that it was Jesus on the cross, crucified and developments thereafter. They claim that it was someone else instead. History has recorded this event. They still continue to deny the fact. Hence, the reason I said that they do not like to have a discussion on Jesus. I can go on, but, I cannot see it doing any good. It’s leading the horse to water once again.

      • TGIF

        Now that’s news to me that SOME Muslims would actually deny that Jesus was crucified. Perhaps the hard core radical Muslims believe in it…If it comes down to that. Well who knows what really happened, the translation has been lost through the centuries and some others have taken pride in distorting history or religious fairy tales.

  • Valkyrie1604

    MW, actually must recommend him to watch the movie or maybe read about it. And yes, Rajiv should know that they found porn movies in his possession (lots of them).
    I salute the women. Rajiv? No, I don’t think you would.

  • blablabla

    Hijab is a must if you life in a dessert like in middle east with high temperature on day light and low temperature in the evening, and also the low humidity. Hijab protects your body against the sun heat & sands. But if you wear hijab in tropical climate such as Indonesia, personally I don’t think it is suitable.

    Not on on geographical aspect but also cultural aspect, the way Arabians perceived woman’s body are different with Indonesians. We are used to see women walking around in sarong or kain.

    But its all up to individual decision to wear hijab or not, the most important thing is not to force opinions to others.

    Peace!

    • TGIF

      Right on track…

    • Tyrone Beiron

      Yes, the actual hadith on the covering of the prophet’s wives in his court were inside the tent and not outside in the open, where it was part of their protective wear. The prophet himself never received a surah from Allah specifically on this ruling and thus, it was intended as a rule by the prophet as earthly leader and not divine. Also, the use of the covering indoors in court was intended to identify the women “who were already spoken for”, and in this specific case, his wives, not for all other women. The reason was simply because the other tribal leaders were afraid to cast glances on the prophet’s wives and offend him accidentally. This is the correct historical basis for matriarchs in court being covered in early Islamic society, and was not mandated by God in any of the original surahs.

      • Valkyrie1604

        Quite a revelation! So, it’s man made then?

        • MadWorld

          ALL religions are man made?
          I do not think God love trivialities, if He/She exist.

          • Valkyrie1604

            With respect, and sorry, I can not argue with you if you do not believe.
            My reference to “man made” was to the wearing of a veil. Apples and pears are fruits, but different.

  • Helena Mahathir

    Apa yang haram itu tetap haram, jangan menghalalkan sesuatu just to suit your own needs and preferences, that’s just ridiculous, and this writer is ridiculous for writing such an article. When in doubt, just refer to the Quran, all the answers are there. It clearly states that covering the “aurat” is wajib ( a must) in Islam, there is no argument there. That doesn’t mean that all women who don’t wear hijab are “bad”, and it also doesn’t mean that all women who do wear hijab are “good. Remember, the rules in Islam have been set, BUT it is up to us whether we want to follow them or not. Dosa tanggung sendiri – tidak usah diheboh-hebohkan. Don’t be proud for choosing not to wear a hijab when you know that you are breaking the rules of Islam. And women who wear hijab also need not be proud – you do it because it is wajib, not to show off to other people that you are good and pure, because the only rightful judge is Allah.

    • TalkingEid

      deep sleep…………………….

      • Valkyrie1604

        Eid, they say count sheep to help but I talk to the Shepherd.

        • TalkingEid

          You get more sense from real sheep than from the human sheep blindly following what they ‘know’ to be right.

    • weilung

      Absolutely correct, Helena. That’s the point. You are responsible for your own choice and your own sins, but let the rule goes that way. Don’t try to set it to meet your preferences…

    • hruni a

      nice but the choice is disappearing fast

  • Valkyrie1604

    Maurice, he can’t! Intellect and honesty isn’t in his vocabulary.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ifortland Hana Al

    Dear sist, I’d like to comment as well about your article.
    We can’t deny the fact that male and female are very different being. while you, sist, think its just alright not to wear hijab even if you judge your attire’s decent enough, our brother have a different view about you.
    Do you know that its enough just by seeing your bare foot or maybe your foot finger, for them to see through your calves and thigh? That’s the nature of our brother. Males have been given something that females doesn’t have : ability to imagine “things” (they’re great at imagining your body shape).
    Do you know why? You must know if we get menstruation for the sign of adulthood then they get a different thing called “wet dream”? Do you know what that dream about is?
    There she is, my mentor in senior high school, that have asked his male friend about that dream. He said ,”I dream about a girl, fully-naked, but I can’t see her face clearly”. That is to believe, that the girl in every man’s dream is their destinied-mate, but whatever. The fact is every man even the most solitude man being who always live secluded or the one that always keep their eyes down for non-muhrimi, at least once have seen how’s the shape of female body. Just so you know, I’m shocked, really.
    I think that’s why there’s an order for us girls, to wear hijab because you wouldn’t know what is the males really view about us.
    If you really curious about what I have stated above, try to ask your male friend? Private okay, literally, that’s a taboo thing to blurt it in front of girl’s face. ^^

    • TalkingEid

      You seem obsessed with sex and nudity – I suggest therapy.

    • Squidsushi

      Also, do you think by not wearing hijab, then you can see a woman naked? Which planet are you living on?

    • Valkyrie1604

      Can you honestly tell me that women do not have similar thoughts?

    • loo

      this kind of thinking that actually evokes rape culture even more..how ironic, telling a woman to cover up but no telling men, not even just once to control their behaviour? shame on you

  • Valkyrie1604

    Do you mind providing a translation for the benefit of those who might look at your post and thinking….”that’s Greek to me.”

  • semak pagar

    how come people based moslem teaching to silly story made 200-300yrs after Muhammad dead? ie. dog and cat, Quran never said anything about cat but said about the some moslem men run from persecution of nicene early trinity persecution, they slept in the cave for 300 plus 9 years with their dog, so the moslem really have dogs in their life. How come people also believe the cobtradictive verse by verse of present bible?
    and also why always thing about papua always atract the rational westerner becone itchy while they have never been there?oh theyve been there, before 63

  • devine

    What insults?… I copy pasted the text from the website you quoted earlier! So if you refer to contents of that website it is ok, but if I do it is insult? And as to my comment admitting that I am Christian… please provide the link since i never made such a statement. Seems you get very confused…

    • TalkingEid

      Rajiv exists in some fantasy world. If the truth doesn’t suit him, he makes things up.

  • Tyrone Beiron

    In the first place, according to the Hadith (prophetic traditions, and this comes from the ones dictated by Aisha), it was from a scene when the other tribal heads in the prophet’s court were uneasy looking upon his wives, and beseeched him to have them covered from their gaze to avoid offending him. As there was so surah from Allah in response to this request, the prophet responded as he would a tribal leader, and not as spiritual leader, giving in to these men’s requests, out of their weakness and not because the prophet wanted to assert his dignity. Hence, the hijab was intended only for covering those “women who were already spoken for”. Traditionally, in Malay and Indonesian societies, it is the married women (matriarchs) who wore the folk head scarves not the unmarried girls. So, the story of the “candy” is a deliberate aberration of Islamic tradition. This is the sad truth about how much misinformation is being passed on by word of mouth in Islamic schools following scholarship of one sort to subjugate one group and oppress others. Similarly, “blasphemy” is strictly an offense against God, alone. So, anything else against the prophet or any scripture cannot be “blasphemy” but serious sin. To elevate these two to the same level as God would be idolatry, but this is exactly what is happening in those Islamic societies where fundamentalism is gaining control over the community, and this is un-Islamic. Peace be upon you all.

  • http://twitter.com/hutami12 Coffee&Me

    Hijab in Indonesia is kind of a new thing! never seen any muslim girl or woman wearing a hijab when I was a kid. Older women made their hair in konde and wore “kain/kemben” and young girls wore a regular dress or skirt & blouse. Sadly, now days more muslim women are becoming “kearab-araban” for no reason or wrong reasons.

  • MadWorld

    Make up your mind girl.
    Wear what you like, if, it makes you happy.
    Do not judge other women who wants no cover on the face.

  • TalkingEid

    no – that’s the answer – because they are intelligent.

  • Valkyrie1604

    Rubbish! I have not seen ‘devine” ever making such a statement. I have, and I think you’re the one “fibbing.”

  • Voxclara

    Even the Islamist in Chief, B Hussain Obama got into the act. To wear or not to wear the ghostly looking hijab or niqab according to Egypt’s al Hazar university, the highest learning of Sunni Islam in the world.
    Quote:
    [The administration understands the wearing of the hijab as a religious injunction for all Muslims. This is not the case, as senior theologians have decreed, including al Azhar, and the niqab is not a universal Muslim obligation, as one can see in 53 Muslim-majority countries. It is a matter of choice. The organized groups calling for a systematic imposition of the niqab are Islamist forces. This translates politically into an official endorsement on the Obama administration's part of the Islamist political agenda under the camouflage of religious rights.]

    Read more: Family Security Matters http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/detail/us-administration-wrongly-advocates-the-islamist-interpretation-of-islamophobia#ixzz2U4hOq4fv
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution

    • TalkingEid

      But Rajiv knows better, Vox!

      • Voxclara

        TE, probably…. Just wondering why the Obama administration supports Islamism to the detriment of the US and its people. Very strange…

        • Valkyrie1604

          I think this platonic affair will continue as long as the black gold can flow in and that the US need not suck it from their stockpile.

          Are you able to believe that every person in the US of A loves the Arabs? Who can forget 9/11 and Pearl Harbor. How many in this country continue to bear hatred towards the Dutch etc., etc.,?

          I have one word for it…Politics..

  • semak pagar

    talkingeid, i refer haditsas silly story, quran is not a silly story, there is no info from quran about aisha age and there are a lot paradoxal trivial quadrivial info abouther age from hadits,your defend is based on that stories and it means you are a sunni practicioner,it is just simplelike that mr talkingeid actually a sunni emamby his opinion

  • devine

    Rajiv… gone into hiding again? Why dont you answer…? Found out that you are wrong?

  • semak pagar

    of course this dialogue is about hijab and indeed it is not part of your indonesian culture, i really can see it, crystal clear. I just remind you about the out of topic dialog about ayesha age, looks like you have put it below. I suggest you, before you take a silly stories and this also for rajiv, you both pls use your logic, intllgn and brain. The silly stories of hadits are destroying all true quranic teaching, ie. in the sunni side they use it to legalize what they like while at the other side,by beliving the stories, they use it to ridicule moslem. Now you can see that both of them are believer of the silly hadits, and you can see yourself at what side you are. You got me? I just feel itchy to see lot of rational westerner here when facing reality of sunni or other sects of twisted religion become irrational and lost their objective approaches.

  • semak pagar

    in this earthly life, i have seen people get twisted from the true messages of God. People get twisted by the deity of jesus, also get the wrong way on the muhammads power for giving ‘safaat’. Both of them in the day of resurrection will say against the teaching, Jesus will say he didnt teach them that he is God, Muhammad will say to his Lord that his people has deserted the Quran. Thats it, and because Devine do not want any further discussion, I hope my comment is the last comment on this page ok?

    • Voxclara

      Read my reply on the contradictions within your scriptures above. On the one hand it upholds the truth of the Torah and the Bible. Then on the other it says both had been corrupted.

      Remember your scriptures revelation if it can be called that came much later then both the Torah and Bible. It also borrowed then twisted many events from both the Jewish and the Christian scriptures.

      • semak pagar

        i didnt find your reply about contradiction, torah(scriptures sent down to jewish prophets before jesus)and injeel(scripture sent down to jesus) yes we recognize it then whats the matter? using your brain you can see lot of contradiction in present bible.
        You know jew is special in quran? because lot of verses telling about them, their succes and failures, also moses is mentioned in 136 verses ! and also there is a clear restriction for them not to eat some kind of meat, imagine! the quran is not only to moslem but also specific to the jews and all human. This book also reform some jewish law, do you know punishment for adultrer in jew/semitic law? its a capital punishment by throwin rock as you can see in magdalene story, do you know quran change that law? quran canceled that barbaric law. many thing i can say to you but if you donot have open mind and intllgnc then it will have no impact to you.

  • hruni a

    @ca23b558e26f9b9f5d59c37dc8cb9d84:disqus
    Lots of ref to the girl being a child, and his niece and that he beat her – if we cannot believe that what else can we not believe? Selective Islam?
    As for only the Qu’ran is ‘lore’ – what about when it contradicts itself ? NO need to explain if you are knowledgeable you will know the common verses open to various interpretion by the brothers depending on if they want violence or peace

    why no post reply JG?? you post rajivs long copy paste from koran verses but not mine

    Maybe 22 is right

    • semak pagar

      you cannot draw conclusion from trivial infos, that what i can say tiredly after studying the refs you said a lot out there.

      • Wong Edan

        Glad to see you calling parts of the Koran “trivial Infos”

  • hruni a

    If you have nothing to fear why do you always spout Islamic dominance propoganda??

  • Alex Brehm

    Women, non wearing hijab are burned in hell? Better burn stupid fundamentalists in hell.
    so peace and tolerance will win instead of terror and murder.

    • semak pagar

      alex, nothing said in the scripture of moslem that women non wearing hijab will be burnt in hell. pls also brush up your english like what talkingeid said to me, are you talking present tense or future condition?

      • MadWorld

        Are you an english teacher?

        • TalkingEid

          Gibberish teacher, maybe.

  • semak pagar

    @hruni
    put for me here more then one verses in Quran that contradict each other(must be more then one to have contradiction)
    it must be quran verse to verse, dont contradict quran verse with silly sunni/syiah/salafi/ahmadyah/wahabian/talibanian teaching and stories, it is indeed contradictive.

    • devine

      “silly sunni/syiah/salafi/ahmadyah/wahabian/talibanian teaching”… oops… no insult here…. right?

      • semak pagar

        devine, i know you didnt insult Muhammad, even if you do so i donot really care because muhammad is not the focus of the this true religion based on quran, muhammad hesu moses abraham joseph and other are just messenger and they are dead, they are not omnipotent, they are in their grave.God is the omnipotent, that are things you can see as differences between true moslem with sunni syii ahmadi talibanian salafian etc many of them has been used by you as moslem examples, and they are wrong examples. To satisfy yourself, you make your brain believe their silly stories about muhammad so in that way you are in the same sidw with them, you got it? you can start learn the Quran from now because Quran is for everybody.

        • hruni a

          because muhammad is not the focus of the this true religion based on quran…… WOWSSSSAA

          then why do muslims keep killing people at every perceived insult to Mo.??

          • semak pagar

            ask them why, im not a member of them. I gave you answer: because they do not understand the Quran and they use other sources for their religion. Now i realize that you and others have passion only to fight me without understanding what im tryin to convey

          • Valkyrie1604

            Try improving your sense of direction then.

        • Valkyrie1604

          Who is “hesu”? Your religion is centered on the prophet. Every day there are several times when through the loud speakers (very, very loud actually) we can hear the shouting of the prophet’s name, in adoration. Only when a killing is made we hear the saying “God is great!” In my books that’s blasphemy of the highest form.

          So, don’t tell me he’s just another messenger. I think some people will be much more angered if one insults the prophet than God.

      • MadWorld

        You just did it 6 times over bro. probably I like more, but hey you have to say, the bugs stop here.

        • devine

          Sorry MW; I didn’t! I have been cynical… I copied the quote from semak pagar’s comment above (now shown as guest) and indicated that this might be insulting….

    • hruni a

      I really cannot understand what you are saying – but if you are asking me to highlight koranic verses that are contradictory well yes I can do that. Please confirm

      • semak pagar

        oh cmon now my english become so complicated and you now have hard time to understand it, oh boy

  • hruni a

    semak pagar

    You offer deflection from the issue that the prophet married a child, an act used by many muslims to justify their own weddings to children

    • semak pagar

      i offered a Quranic based of thinking which is liberal, rational, free of contradiction and guidance to the truth. The stories in reality were used by two sides, one used them to justify their lust, other used them to insult. Both of them believe the stories and not using their intllectual capabilities when facing information, Quran came to both of them but both of them are not appreciative.

      • hruni a

        liberal, rational, free of contradiction and guidance to the truth…..

        Big claim.

        But lets see if you can back it up… Lets’s start with your Koranic view on creation..

        Over to you

        • semak pagar

          its not big claim, do you have your view about creation? because saying that we are made by atoms then saying that we are made by water then saying that we are also consist of dna, meat and fat also may trigger a conclusion that science can be contradictive, is Quran against evolution? or it support evolution? hmm

          • hruni a

            is Quran against evolution? or it support evolution?… you are he expert semak – what does it say to you??

          • semak pagar

            haha, cmon man, of course it says about evolution but may be different with darwin understanding, and is darwin understanding the one and only way to explain evolution? of course not haha, thanks God im an exploration geophysicist. btw Darwin is still a great scientist.

          • Wong Edan

            If you believe in things without evidence then you are no scientist.

          • semak pagar

            what things?

          • Wong Edan

            Well, a god for one thing…

          • semak pagar

            you free to go, no worry, no compulsion in religion(2:256)

          • TalkingEid

            no compulsion in religion? True, as long as you are A Sunni Muslim I guess.

          • mauriceg

            Exploration Geophysicist??? Why do I doubt this? I think that you found this job-title somewhere in a book. Or did you purchase a degree. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the stand of your posts does not support an academic background.
            Now, I may be wrong, and I apologize profusely if so. But, if you are truly as you claim, why are your posts so poorly written. They also seem to be in the style the standard hostile Muslim who knows almost nothing beyond his Koran. So let’s hear about Exploration Geophysics. How are you on Areophysics? Selenology? Because I can certainly not be fooled.

        • Valkyrie1604

          I have also asked him to provide an answer which I don’t believe will be forthcoming because he has to contradict himself.

      • Voxclara

        sp: [Quranic based of thinking which is liberal, rational, free of contradiction and guidance to the truth.]

        Then those Islamists who commit atrocities against non Muslims including the Boston marathon bombers and the London attacks where two Islamists hacked to death and beheaded the young innocent British soldier, all these Muslims must have severe misunderstanding of Islam and the Quran. They must, otherwise they wouldn’t be killing us.

        Then there are the many verses of hatred and violence, hmmm….

        • semak pagar

          thanks clara, thats why they fall to non quranic religion/not a genuine moslem, btw pls tell me which verses(it should be easy as you say there are many of them) of hatred and violences? so we can discuss them here

        • Valkyrie1604

          There’s quite a lot of empty barrels that I’ve observed and this particular one truly makes the most of it.

          • Guest

            i didnt see you put something valuable here, scroll back and see, what you put in comments are only short words out of context.

  • hruni a

    semak pagar

    you cannot draw conclusion from trivial info

    But many muslims are using the same trivial info to kill, attack and oppress

    • semak pagar

      you mean sunni maybe? or syii? or salafi? or trinity christian? trinity christian also invade attack kill and opress

      • hruni a

        Semak
        All around this planet Muslims of one flavor or another are killing each other in the name of your god – they are often doing so over differences in interpretations of the holy koran, or because one sect might believe A whilst another thinks B or that one practice offends another.
        Here we are seeing people forced to convert, people attacked and driven from their homes even killed, again because of different beliefs within the one blanket myth –
        We are also seeing our culture overrun by Arabization in the way we behave, attitudes towards others and like here how we dress – and it is being disguised as being a ‘good muslim’ when clearly it is not.
        Regarding Trinity Christains – well lets exchange facts on that. You can post their atrocities and in return I will post Muslim atrocities
        The rules are simple
        ‘acts carried out soley because of religious differences’ like for example the attacks on the Ahmadiyah or Sh’ia in Indonesia.

        Over to you. I am not a Christian for reference

        • semak pagar

          its over to you also, i dont see sunni syii ahmadi as they do not use quran as basis, im not them also im not christian. and thanks for info that they kill each other, if you didnt tell me i will not know :) OF COURSE i know it man :) i think youll ask me about creation but now i do not have passion to answer it because you can learn by yoursel

          • hruni a

            great cop out

          • Reeefer

            Muslims killing muslims killing non muslims and you utter this stupidity

          • Good,Bad and Ugly

            The 72+- sects of Islam use the Quran; the many thousand Christians sects use the Bible. Ie Syii and Ahmadi equally use the Quran.

            You do not tell others that it is not their book also; you do not tell others what is right or wrong. Especially from books that are hearsay, not backed up by evidence, written by faithful believers also not educated. (well, educated to the level of the times)
            Over the many years that I post this type of thread asking for proof and evidence, I do not get much back in the way of logical debate. It gets kind of lonely standing among the dumb.

          • mauriceg

            No such thing as creation, laddie. it’s a made-up word from long ago, when people needed to explain where our universe came from. Modern science is giving us deep insights into the workings of nature. It looks like some of our ideas (for example, the Higgs Boson, a theory for 50 years and recently its discovery at CERN), a triumph of the human mind.
            Religion gives no insights into reality or truth. It tells lies about origins, even after thousands of years of slow progress out of ignorance and superstition. It tries to pretend otherwise, but to no avail. In the Western world religion is a social tool, still beneficial for times of bereavement.
            But your god is a ‘god of the gaps’; the gaps in knowledge that were wider in ancient times, but diminishing as we understand more about Nature.
            BTW, Muslim on Muslim killing is growing daily around the world. There is also a never-ending stream of suicide bombers being born and killed every minute. What does that tell you?
            I know what it tells me.

          • semak pagar

            hi lady, explain me the latest higgs boson research in cern, looks like you have good knowledge in physics :) do you have latest publication from them?

          • TalkingEid

            You can read all you want on CERN’s website guest – http://home.web.cern.ch/

          • Valkyrie1604

            You’re not clever therefore the opposite. The name “Maurice” is associated with the masculine gender. Kapish?

          • TalkingEid

            My Sky Pixie is bigger than your Sky Pixie……

          • TalkingEid

            My Sky Pixie is bigger than your Sky Pixie……

  • semak pagar

    thanks for downvoting me, love it

    • Valkyrie1604

      I’m a terribly nice guy, so here’s another one for you! Since you love it. I have a feeling more will come.

  • semak pagar

    evolution in clay, water, dust/earth we are, as evolution stages, we then from sperm and egg, embrio, fetus no contradiction, are you consist of atoms? or 70% of you is water? arent you made of meat and fat? you are earthy material, are they contradictive for you? it is our present science, and possibly popular, you can see it contradictive using your limited intllgnc

    • Valkyrie1604

      Pleaseeeeee tell me where you outsourced this rubbish?

    • mauriceg

      Dear Semak Pagar, just responding to your.. err evolution paragraph. I don’t suppose you would like to clarify this? Because those of us rational folk have no idea what it’s about.

      Did you just take some random words from a science book to appear intelligent? Well, don’t worry, you’re safe with me because I wouldn’t have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

      • semak pagar

        halo maurice, im not someone studying evolution. the question: is quran support evolution? the answer is yes. you can safe also with me, no worry mate

  • semak pagar

    madworld: need bit sip of red wine to brush up my english, my email semak_pagar@yahoo.com for anyone who wants a further discussion, not just say great cop out

    • Valkyrie1604

      Keep it to yourself.

      • semak pagar

        thanks then

  • Voxclara

    Dear WebEd, why is it some of my comments are published and others aren’t? I posted the comment below in reply to semak pagar a few minutes earlier than the the other two comments but it wasn’t published. This is happening more frequently now.

    @semak pagar :

    Contradictions in the Qur’an:

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/#bible

    [The Qur'an in Contradiction to the Earlier Revelations:

    Ultimately, the strongest, most serious problem of the Qur'an is that it affirms the scriptures of the Jews and the Christians as authentic and true revelation from God (cf. what the Qur'an says about the Bible), while radically denying central aspects of their message, e.g. the core themes of sacrifice and atonement in the Torah, the crucifixion of Jesus, the deity of Jesus and even the mere messianic title "Son of God" for Jesus, the very nature of God, the fall and the sinfulness of man (*, *), necessity and means of salvation, etc. For this reason Muslims had to invent the unwarranted theory of corruption of the earlier scriptures, even against the clear testimony of the Qur'an itself.]

    • semak pagar

      dear clara, its not my intention to say about this website. Have ye check them or just copy paste?

  • Voxclara

    Semak P, I am still waiting for your response.
    You claimed:
    -there is no contradiction in your Quran
    -Jews are honoured in your Quran
    -no stoning of adulters in your Quran

    I have used your Quran to refute your claim, so please respond.

    • semak pagar

      clara, im not a man explaining you all thing cause God said Hes the one explaining Quran, not even muhammad, but pls if you need any help from me about the contradiction pls be specific ie. this verse is in contradiction with this one and this one, lot of people in reality are lazy to read, you can take some good translation of Quran and quote things you think are in contradictions. ok? fair enough i think

    • MadWorld

      dear Vox, are you “Waiting for Godot”??

      • semak pagar

        have ye told them not to worship man? im also waiting for godot for the request i made below.

        • Valkyrie1604

          I’m truly surprised that you know who “Godot” is. I didn’t and I looked it up. Did you? How about a truthful answer?

          • semak pagar

            when i was activist-student some of my friends play ‘menunggu godot’ in student theater. You stay in eu and read jakarta globe? in love with indonesia hah? an act from you to tell people not to worship man also a ‘menunggu godot’

          • TalkingEid

            semak pagar has the answer to everything – except questions.

    • Valkyrie1604

      Seed that fell by the wayside. It’s certainly not found in that book.

      • semak pagar

        dont have gut to tell them ye? tell them not to adore human rather than grumbling here

        • Valkyrie1604

          You’re arguing like a silly kid. Grow up and present postings worthy of reading. Guess you don’t even know why I said the seed fell by the wayside. You’re not as smart as you believe you are. Prove I’m wrong by answering Voxclara’s questions.

          • semak pagar

            val, i also didnt ask your believe, thank you for tellin me, no compulsion in religion(2:256, 4:90, 10:99 etc)

  • Guest

    ive just realized after scroll all the conversation below, people arguing without any wish to read the quran, one even said he will not read it bcause its in arabic(vakyrie ?) well, i suggest to read the translation, after that the discussion will be fairer. I will stop myself from discussion if the other side in reality do not have knowledge capability in quran and even do not want to read quran(translation)

    • Valkyrie1604

      I have a Chinese translation of the Qu’ran. You want to try reading it?

      • semak pagar

        stay in EU and read jakartaglobe?

      • semak pagar

        now i can undestand why you have chinese translation cause you are singaporean and has been living in indonesia for long time. You know? before i know u r a singaporean i have seen your comment as a childish emotional person who said shorty word out of topics. fyi my mam a chinese descent and my grandpa sometimes speak hakka and mandarin. But bcause youve been long time here you dont have to say my words in indonesian ‘like greek to you’ :) be calm man

        • Valkyrie1604

          I posted that remark 5 days ago. Being a stup** person is not an effort for you.

          Read what I actually said. To refresh your memory, I said for the benefit of those who do not understand Bahasa Indonesia. This is primarily an English language board, so let’s stay with writings in English. If you choose to post in a foreign language, be polite by providing a translation. This is precisely why I said it would sound like Greek. Kapish? (understand?)

          I read and write English, Bahasa Indonesia and Chinese (Hanyu Pinyin) and spoken Hokkien dialect.

          Now, who’s being childish and emotional?

          ps

          I currently live in Indonesia and never in the EU. Get your facts right, you …..!

  • dee

    Dear Dian, i’m a muslim and yes, i wear hijab. First, i do agree with you on that candies analogy. I’ve been wondering for years before I decided to wear hijab. I ask many of my muslim friends who already wear hijab and they told me the same reason like that. I was upset. I mean, why should I do something to get advantage from it? Is that really how religion works? Maybe it is, but it’s not satisfying for me. So, one day, another muslim woman asked me, why am I being muslim? Is it because I was born muslim or is it my real decision? She asked me, am I really love Allah and obey Him? Now I think that hijab is a form of our obedient. I wear hijab because Allah said so. If I say I’m a muslim, then I should think, behave, and dress like a muslim too. Islam is a whole system, you can’t take one part you like and throw away the rest. It’s a commitment. it’s a commitment and you have to be istiqamah. Let them say and judge you whatever they want, focus on yourself and Allah. It doesn’t matter what they say, it’s about you, doing the right thing :)

    • devine

      Please give us an exact quote WHERE Allah said so…

      • rovina

        http://quran.com/33/59

        “O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.”

        • devine

          Well I fail to see that this includes the head…
          ___
          Anyway, the Chinese garment industry is happy because that is where most hijab are made…

          • Valkyrie1604

            Did they suddenly realize that? Decades ago, very few wore the Hijab even when I was working in Aceh. (1980s)

            No, I think that it’s more towards fashion and style. Observe the ladies on television. Beauty salons are losing a fair amount of business. Yes, they wear it to signify their faith, but I strongly believe it’s more on vanity.

          • TalkingEid

            more like mindless sheep who cannot make their own decisions.

          • Valkyrie1604

            In many ways too! I agree.

      • tony

        Why do you keep asking something that is ‘irrational’ for you?

        • devine

          Well, it is irrational for all… isn’t it? Why did Indonesian Muslim women not wear the hijab for hunderts of years and only started to do so in the last 10 years? Please explain in order for me to understand what I have missed here…

    • rustynails

      Sorry Dian, You weren’t born anything you were indoctrinated the same as christian, hindu or any other religion. Your religion is an accident of location not divine fate.

  • Valkyrie1604

    Just noticed your post. Nicely put. Hana is probably a troll.

  • teo

    the shame is that a wrapped candy woman has to take with her a dirty unwrapped candy man, blessed by God..

  • yes

    I agree with Dian Kuswandini.

  • Fatima

    Amazing piece sister! People need to understand a dichtomy between religious and cultural choices. Furthermore,, post colonialism in Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) women dressed modest but the hijab derive from the catholic practice.
    I am not religious but these supposed practitioners, instead of advising us women, are dictating our lives and judging us, this itself is a terrible sun. I hope Allah guided us all on the right path inshallah, thank you for these words I can relate as a moral non-hijab weaing Muslim.

    Especially when I know hijab girls that not only dress badly, but are rude, disobedient and engage in sexual acts. I am not perfect but have not engaged in acts and I am kind to all, I dress modest. Islam is a religion of love this we should not be condemning each other’s choices. Inshallah He guides us all on the right path.

  • hehyes

    Wearing hijab IS compulsory, but shouldn’t be forced. Just as every “amalan” in Islam like praying, fasting and charity; one should do it not because others tell them to but coming from initiative. Muslims should do their amalan because they are ready to do it and realize fully that Allah has ordered them to do so. The only rightful judge is Allah so the cleric who use candle analogy is wrong.

    Lakum dinukum waliyadin, fellow muslims can only reminds but should never force one another

    • TalkingEid

      “Wearing hijab IS compulsory, but shouldn’t be forced.” Is it just me?

  • hehyes

    I will take the first one

    You will find others who
    wish to obtain security from you and [to] obtain security from
    their people. Every time they are returned to [the influence
    of] disbelief, they fall back into it. So if they do not
    withdraw from you or offer you peace or restrain their hands,
    then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them. And
    those – We have made for you against them a clear
    authorization.

    that is the full ayat, you shouldn’t cut the verse in the middle of it. CONTEXT

    • barkhov

      yeah, preach us for quoting incomplete ayat, but who’s going to take responsibility when muslims actually kill others because he’s fed with “incomplete ayat”? you?

  • DianKuswandini

    Salam to all,
    It came to my surprise that my old article was “awaken from the death”.
    I wrote numerous comments before, but it seems that the new format of JG web doesn’t store them. So let me once again write my clarification.

    Did I say somewhere I hate hijab?
    Did I say that I’m proud of choosing not to wear hijab?
    Please read again, and you’ll see that I wrote I’m not against hijab and that someday I might wear one. My whole hijab experiences actually go beyond this writing. It started from my teenage days, when I was forced by my teachers to wear hijab during their Islamic Teaching classes (or I would get low marks if I refuse to do so). I felt ridiculous to wear a headscarf with my short-skirt uniform. I have many other stories I don’t think I can share here. But does it make me hate hijab? Not at all. I have to be honest that my father is a Muslim scholar who’s leading Islamic organizations like Muhammadiyah, Parmusi and Bayt al-Qur’an, as well as teaching Islamic history & culture and wrote many books on it. But despite this religious background, he has never forced me into hijab. My mother and sisters all decided to wear hijab from their hearts. So, I DID NOT come from hatred when I wrote this article. My intention with this post isn’t to debate hijab as an obligation in the first place — but to highlight people’s judgments toward non-hijabis :)

    I feel sad every time I see Muslims attack other Muslims, just because of different views, including through pressures, threats and verbal bullying. Reminding another Muslim about a good deed is surely positive, but what makes it negative is when it’s followed by pressures, degrading analogies or labeling. I’ll write it once again: It could turn people away even further from Islam. For example, here are few “reminders” from cleric Felix Siauw, that I’ve found very judgmental and full of fitnah: “Pantas saja hijab enggan engkau kenakan, karena memang engkau inginkan lelaki kagumi badan.”
    (Translation: No wonder that you don’t want to wear hijab, because you indeed want men to admire your body.) Another one: “Ia mengotori kehormatan diri dan Islam saat buka aurat.” (Translation: She defiles her dignity and Islam when she opens her aurah.)

    Sorry, but I’ve found them very judgmental. I live in France, where I know many WONDERFUL and RELIGIOUS muslim women who do not wear hijab because they simply can’t. I know too many of them already who got fired from jobs because they tried to don hijab. So, they don’t wear hijab NOT because they want men to admire their bodies. It’s so much easy to judge Muslim women when you’re (religious?) Muslim men, because you don’t go through what we go through. At the same time, when Muslim women aren’t allowed to wear hijab (like in France and Belgium), many Muslims roar, screaming about “the right to wear we want to wear”. Now, please apply the same to those who don’t choose hijab :)

    Anyway, if you read my latest writing on “Hijab: Between Faith & Fashion”, you’ll understand where I come from as a Muslim — discrimination by those with the “I’m more Muslim than you” syndrome is the key. I think the least I could do as a Muslim woman is to write what I observe from my surrounding, and what I’ve learned from personal experiences. I know, deep in my heart, many Muslim women out there share similar stories like me, because I received so many personal mails following this writing. I’m NOT proud of choosing not to wear hijab (like one accused me in a comment). I just don’t want to be part of either a silent majority or… a silenced minority :)

    • Valkyrie1604

      Thank you for being so honest especially when this concerns “obligations” in your Faith which some of us view differently. More so, because you’re a woman (Muslim by belief).

      As a Christian, I have read my Holy Scriptures and there are portions of which I am not able to accept. From my immediate family, I have received remarks on several occasions, why I DO NOT attend Church regularly. My relation with my God is personal and attending Church regularly does not make me a better Christian. At least for me. I will worship Him whenever and wherever I choose.

      Unlike your father, mine was religiously strict. Every Sunday was Sunday School. Eventually, he changed because he realized that it was NOT possible to adhere to what our Scripture demands of us. You see, I am married to a wonderful lady, a Muslim.

      Live well, dear lady.

    • MadWorld

      God/Allah preordained you through your heart, Not because you are wearing hijab. HE is not to be fooled. The heart is not wearing any religious clothing.

    • bystander

      Well. it IS a good article :D

    • White^Musk

      thank you for the good article. i’m from indonesia and i found that felix siauw’s tweets about hijab are often very judgemental. I know that actually he has good intention and actually there are many of his other tweets that true.

  • Diederik

    I agree with the man. How can you say you’re a “muslim” and then not follow the koran? There’s no “islam lite”, just “islam” or “unbeliever” (in which you’ll burn in hell for eternity, etc, but since you don’t believe that you’ll be fine).

    It’s time “muslims” around the world started to read their holy book cover to cover and then make a lifestyle (and fashion) choice.

  • jakarta

    Funny, another ‘dee’ 3 days ago said she was a moslem but expressed similar comment with you. :)

    • Dezmond Edison Christian

      fnaar

  • pakGuru

    no matter which god i believe in, there’ll be someone who says my god is a fake and that i’ll go to hell.

  • human2

    I have never seen a young girl want to wear a hijab. I see them always forced into wearing it often told off sternly if they don’t wear it. After wearing one from the age of 10/11 until 20 they are conditioned to feel unsafe and exposed if they do not wear it. I think the idea of free choice as to whether or not to wear one is a myth. Families have very strong opinions about this and would disown their children in some cases if they choose not to wear it. I challenge those who think they made they choice to wear it go for 1 week without it and judge your families, neighbors and friends reactions. See how judgmental and uncomfortable you feel and tell me it was your choice. Your choice to start wearing it and your choice to continue wearing it.

    • devine

      Well said !

    • sheldon archer

      Unfortunately the last thing that religious leaders want to see is freedom of choice. With that, they tend to lose control.

  • buchong
  • sheldon archer

    So as you see things, everyone else should see them? The Christian Bible commands death to all Gays, fortune tellers, women who marry and are not virgins, children who curse at their parents etc etc. Would you be happy to see them show a high commitment and devotion to their religion?

  • Len

    Excellent article!

  • Arie

    just a piece of advise, when we still can not do it…istighfar may Allah Azza wa Jalla help us.

    • TalkingEid

      I might take your advice – if I understood it.

  • MadWorld

    Not mentioning the smell

  • apa?

    I dont understand what this is all about.

    Is it about a head scarf? If so, it seems people have fairly strong feelings about head scarfs, which is surprising because people don’t seem to have similarly strong feelings about hats, or scarfs, or shoulder scarfs, or other items of clothing above the shoulder. What is it about the head scarf that is so important? Is this discussion really happening in the 21st century? Has anyone ever read Darwin’s Origin of Species?

    • devine

      It is about the Arabization of Indonesia…

      • TalkingEid

        Its about genuinely free choice. I laugh myself sick as international flights reach Jakarta, and the number of hijabs rises in inverse proportion to the number of mini skirts worn.

    • MadWorld

      About looking pious, hypocrite actually.

  • Rose Christo

    Good article. I’ve been considering “reverting” to Islam and I worry about the hijab, because even though I think they are beautiful garments, my culture and my family (Native American/Cree) would probably look at me funny if I started wearing one. I have read the Quran so many times–its message is fascinating–and the verses say to dress modestly (which I already do). Nowhere do they specifically say “Wear a headscarf,” “Wear hijab,” “Wear niqab.” Just “Dress modestly.” (7:26, 24:30-31) (And these verses are addressing both women and men.) Something to think about.

  • MadWorld

    Just thinking, comparing women to candy, I do feel the women wearing burqa, or islamic veil are candies that contains 50% strychnine & or @45%quinine, unpleasant to suck .

    • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

      Depends on which Burqa you pick to suck on, you would be surprised.

  • Surga Neraka

    Wearing hijab is an obligation. Yes of course, it doesnt matter what your profession is. Prostitute? wear one. Teacher ? wear one. You dont want to wear hijab? okay, there are many obligation in islam to follow, not being a prostitute for an example.

    • Botak

      “okay, there are many obligation in islam to follow, not being a prostitute for an example.”

      What about corruption, killing in the name of god, oppression…..??

  • anna_gee

    Every choice has consequences. I’m not gonna judge you here, but I can’t blame the others who did. You’re a muslim, so you already know that wearing hijab is an obligation for muslim women. Take another example. Students in school for example, they often get assignments, which have to be done by themselves. Every students knows that it’s one of their obligation as a student. But then there’s one student who never does his/her assignments. Can you blame if his/her friends say something bad about it, like judging him/her a lazy student, perhaps?

    “In which part then hijab can protect women when they work as prostitutes?” It depends on their reasons in wearing hijab. Is it because they realize their obligation as muslim women? Or just for a camouflage? If a muslim woman wears hijab because she wants to fulfill her obligation as a muslim, she surely won’t choose prostitute as her way of life. Non-muslim can wear hijab as well, but that doesn’t mean they’re muslim, right?

    Calling someone a “terrorist” just because of his Arabic attire is often done by non-Arab, who don’t know much about Arab culture, like calling a muslim as a “terrorist” is done by non-muslim just because they don’t know much about Islam. But for this hijab thing, you and the ones who judged you there, are muslims. So I assume you all know about the rules.

    I agree with you, dakwah should be done nicely, without any force. But just don’t blame someone who tells a truth. If a liar told you to be honest, could you blame him/her? It’s not about a person, but what he/she says that matters. Salam..

    • HUnri a

      so you already know that wearing hijab is an obligation for muslim women…. NO ITS NOT – its a modern construct based on medieval needs

      • anna_gee

        “It’s not”??? Who told you so? Any new Koran verse or Hadith to support your opinion? Of course not.

        • devine

          Nothing… really… nothing in the Koran says that you have to or should wear a head scarf… maybe you should sit down now and learn to read the Arabic language and hence see for yourself instead of blindly following hear-say…

  • KuciKoo

    People are hypocrites. Wearing a hijab in the belief that you are fulfilling an obligation while at the same time stealing millions of dollars proves this point. Just look at all the corrupt female politicians facing court. Wearing a hijab does not make you a better Muslim nor should not wearing one make you a bad Muslim. Being an honest and compassionate person should be the goal.

  • buchong
  • anna_gee

    What is veil? Something you wear over your head or your feet? Use your anatomy lessons along with general lessons. Actually, the original word mentioned in Qur’an is “khumur”, the plural form of “khimar”. Now, what is khimar? Al-Munjid, which is the most popular dictionary in the Arab world, defines al-khimar as “something with which a woman conceals her head.

    The women of Medina in the pre-Islamic era used to put their khumur over the head with the two ends tucked behind and tied at the back of the neck, in the process exposing their ears and neck, only covering their hair. By saying that, “place the khumur over the bosoms,” Almighty Allah ordered the women to let the two ends of their headgear extend onto their bosoms so that they conceal their ears, the neck, and the upper part of the bosom also. (Ar-Rãzi, at-Tafsīru ’l-Kabīr)

    It is absurd to believe that the Qur’an would use the word khimar (which, by definition, means a cloth that covers the head) only to conceal the bosom with the exclusion of the head. It would be like saying to put on your shirt only around the belly or the waist without covering the chest!

    • TalkingEid

      Good to know that Allah has revealed to you personally how to read and interpret the Qur’an. I was always told that it was the literal word of Allah and not subject to interpretation. Does this mean you are the new Prophet?

      • devine

        Certainly sounds like she thinks so…

  • Voltron

    The Qur’an is also man made. Allah didn’t sent it by emails, UPS or fax. It was written by man according to what Muhammad said (if you a believer; through Jibril).

    • kembangtaman

      of course Allah didnt sent it by email, ups or fax.Indeed it was written by Muhammad or supervised by him, then what? your comment lack of objectives.

      • MadWorld

        The Koran was compiled HUNDREDS of years after the death of Muhammad,based on the hadith & or sunnah, it was not written by himself, it is a compilations of hear says & linked to the yew & christian traditions. Learn your stuff.

    • TalkingEid

      Careful Voltron – or all the nice, friendly, cuddly, moderate Indonesian Muslims will be out for your blood.

  • TalkingEid

    guess again

  • TalkingEid

    You seem confused. Islam is a religion, not a race.

  • TalkingEid

    Indeed. But as we all know, in many Muslim communities both here and elsewhere, the APPEARANCE of piety is given a much higher priority than actually being good. Just look at the number of hijabs sported in our courtrooms.

    • devine

      Wonder what anne_gee’s response is on that…

    • anna_gee

      Really? How many Muslim women are on this earth? How many of them wear hijab, and how many who don’t? And now, how many Muslim women who wear hijab on their daily basis are sported in courtrooms as a suspect (not the ones who suddenly use it after getting caught)? I hope you hold a valid statistic data before coming up with that conclusion.

      • TalkingEid

        I have no idea – do you? or are you simply, again, posting questions rather than answers – the usual deflection by those who have no answers to rational debate.

      • devine

        Maybe you can provide the stats…

  • TalkingEid

    not to mention those oh so naughty ‘Satanic Verses’.

  • devine

    Neither do you have any proof…

  • Moohamed

    My sky pixie is more cleverer than your sky pixie.

  • anna_gee

    It’s off the topic. But anyway, what difference? About Dome of Rock and Masjid Al-Aqsa? It is surely different. Dome of Rock and Masjid Al-Aqsa are 2 different buildings, but located close to each other. You’ll find the clarification not only in Islamic websites, but also in global traveler site like tripadvisor.

  • TalkingEid

    A fine bit of ‘whataboutery’ – so what?

  • TalkingEid

    You think Indonesian corrupt politicians wear a hijab out of shame? The have no idea of the meaning of the word shame – it’s simply a ploy to win a lighter sentence by displaying their ‘piety’. I guess you fell for it.

  • devine

    Yes but NOW it is Muslims killing Muslims all over the world. And the topic is indeed about hijab … and the tolerance or rather intolerance in this this regard…

  • devine

    I posted the answer 2 times but it seems WebEd has a problem with that…

    • coalburnerengineer

      ‘the servants whom their right hands possess’ is not a good term to explain the ‘ma malakat aymanukum’ in 4:24 and i think what you have posted twice also very wrong

  • TalkingEid

    you accused people of racism because they disagree with your interpretation of Islam. Can you not even understand your OWN words now?

    Epic fail – remedial class again.

    • anna_gee

      Well, please distinguish between “disagree” and “disparage”. I didn’t call Voltron “racist” because of his disagreement. But because the way he made fun of it. If ones disagree with a belief, it’s their choice. But at least keep it themselves, don’t say something to disparage others.

      • TalkingEid

        So calling someone a racist is not meant to disparage them? You REALLY need an education – or at least a good dictionary.

  • TalkingEid

    I prefer dictionaries to wikipedia. Merriam-Webster “racism –

    1
    : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
    2
    : racial prejudice or discrimination”

    3rd epic fail in a row.

  • bystander

    And yet, when a Non-Muslim man wants to marry a woman who was born into a muslim family (but doesnt believe in the prophet), their marriage will not be accepted by islamic law.

  • bystander

    Btw the quran / hadith and sunnah didnt write themselfs. Historic researchers date the first written version of the quran (+sunnah and hadith) somewhat 80 to 100 AFTER the passing of the prophet.

  • bystander

    Only because Voltron disagrees, He/She is an racist? Pretty bold accusation isnt it? And we dont laugh at your religion, we laugh at you. Not because you are a faithful muslima, but because 90 % of your statements are silly.

    • anna_gee

      Well, please distinguish between “disagree” and “disparage”. I didn’t call him “racist” because of his disagreement. But because the way he/she made fun of it. There’s no need to mention about email, UPS or fax, as he already know that Qur’an was revealed long before the word “computer” even exist.

  • bystander

    Ok little history lesson.

    Althought Muslims didnt start the wars, they participated in them. i.e. they were not neutral. And most of the muslim majority countries (at least those in the middle east and north africa) fought alongside the axis powers. you know .. the bad guys.

  • bystander

    The quaran was written somewhat 80 -100 Years AFTER the prophets death. And the language and wording used changed several times. Although the general message remained unchanged, the details are open to interpretation. This is why e.g. faithful muslims form lets say indonesia say: wearing hijab and wearing clothing that doesnt expose skin except face hands and feet is modest, and women in Saudi Arabia (the “birthplace” of Islam) women have to wear the burqa and are not even allowed to leave the house without a male guardian if they want to be percieved as modest.

  • bystander

    “If you dont believe check it out. Always you will find that yes its true”.

    nope not necessarily:

    As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. (6)
    Allah hath sealed their hearts and their hearing, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom. (7)

    [Surah al-Baqarah (2) : 6 -7]

    The great boss himself sealed the hearts of the unbeliever. Lucky Disbelievers

  • bystander

    Just curious: Why shouldnt she spread her “silly” arguments?

    • TalkingEid

      In case some people start to think for themselves, bystander, instead of acting like malleable sheep.

  • bystander

    And what consequences would that be? A few more years in hell. But in the end she will go to heaven.

  • mauriceg

    @Fayaz Ahamed M, et al – I am a non-believer, and I am gobsmacked and horrified by all the ink and electrons spilled over this issue which is really social behaviour.
    If the Islamic world, in the 1400 years of its existence had ever given a damn about poverty, sickness, education, housing, social equity, disease, art , science, medicine, engineering, it would not be the nadir of the world. It would not have the dubious distinction of being a parasitic blood-thirsty, war-torn, violent, ignorant, pestilential third-world mentality.
    All this pious misogynistic crap about what to wear from you and your co-religionists is designed to distract from the fact that you haven’t a clue, and are walking around in a miasma of confusion, misdirection and fear.

  • Wong Edan

    “prove me that Quran is not from God or definitely from God” – not our job. The person who makes the claim is responsible for proving it.

  • Wong Edan

    “He “heared” a voice telling him what to do, or at least he claimed to have heared a voice that tould he what to do.” – Amazing that people still base their lives on the claims of a man who heard voices. Nowadays we lock such people up…or provide clinical care.

  • rustynails

    I saw that movie… “I Robot”

  • nazarean or christian

    i thought you are the one beaten by darren few times ago? still the same website?

    • Voxclara

      No, he never defeated me. Scroll all the way down and read my reply to Geoff below, and I quote:
      [Darren1 never defeated me. He dismissed historical facts and the Islamic scriptures because they do not support his stance. How can one argue against historical fact and what's in the Quran? You can't!]

      Anyway, regardless who defeated who, what’s that got to do with my reply or the content of the website?

      If you can refute what I said or what’s in the website then by all means do so. If you can’t then best refrain from making silly remarks.

      • leviticus

        cmon, grow up, the website is not credible to be used as scientific sources

        • Funky Faizal

          and the holy scriptures are???

  • DianKuswandini

    If you choose not to like people who don’t wear wijab, then go for it and don’t tell people to stop excercise their right of speech, as guaranteed by the Indonesian Constitution. I’m fully responsible with everything I wrote (valid identity, traceable organizations), unlike you who’re hiding behind anonymity to attack people with different views.

  • weegie-boy

    “Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful”
    Then why do so many Muslims persecute others?
    Surely if you believe what you just wrote, you would tolerate all because Allah is forgiving?

    Far too much ambiguity in Islam, or at least in the interpretation of it?

  • Not Born Yesterday

    my friends,

    Koran was not a printed book handed to Mohamed in one go by god. Every time he get into a situation he gets a revelation. e.g. Infidelity…when aisha was two hours late in joining Mohamed’s caravan trail and came with a young man and was promptly accused of infidelity. Mohammed had a revelation. So the decision that you need two eye witness to prove infidelity.

    It was 249 years later that Caliph the 4th put it in the current format and have the rest of the piece meal Koran destroyed. By this time, the Islamic invaders had acquired enough knowledge conquering other high cultures and great civilizations. All this “knowledge” was already there. The Arabs were more settled. The Koran as oral poetry was converted properly edited and put in chapters as it is found today. You cannot honestly not discount that knew knowledge and poetry was not included. A book put together in a format by men from scattered pieces of oral traditions.

    Hadith is a collection of nearly 5000 practices of oral traditions deemed during Mohamed’s time. These Islamic writers disregarded nearly half of it and came out with a comprehensive Hadith as you would have it today.Yes men made.

    Tonight before you sleep just reflect how indonesian people lived 249 years ago and tell me nothing has changed and that you will change nothing.

    If you dare ask yourself questions and seek answers. And if you continue that path you may loose the faith, whichever faith you have.

    If you don’t dare I would not call you a coward. But you do not run down other faiths. Faith is personal. Simple lack of faith is if you claim to be a Sunni and by sheer numbers you displace Shiites, That is rule of a mob not faith.

    A frog in the well approach to life is not a really enriching life.

    • sevenupcoke

      hey what you did? he asked about free will and source of quran, your long statement do not talk about both of them. Freewill maunye have evidences that mohammad wrote something he didnt have previous knowledge. D you know when people know that Haman is the one who helped pharaoh to built things?

  • Funky Faizal

    i personally would rather allah used his energies to stop muslims killing and
    oppressing other muslims plus other groups in his name rather than concentrate on what some view to be the subjugation of the female

    as for the hijab, well in the 21C it really should be moot, a choice and not an obligation or by force, but thats where Islam falls down really, there is no choice for many women

  • DrDez

    Semak

    as one of the arrogant (or enlightened) I would suggest the onus is upon a person with religious belief to prove, to demonstrate the existence of the omnipotent being that you and others run your lives by, especially if that group is attempting to impose its beliefs on other (like Indonesian Sunni Muslims for example).

    If you cannot then what you are believing in is purely an act of faith – faith in something you cannot see, cannot smell and cannot touch

    Unfortunately as we see day in day out that faith often leads to antagonist behavior, violence and often deadly acts – based purely on the premise ‘my god is better than your god’ or ‘my way is more holy than yours’

    This very week we have seen 9 reported cases of direct violence in Indonesia using the the above ‘faith’ as the excuse. Look around the globe to see thousands more – most often committed by Sunni Muslims

    I for one, on many occasions have willingly subjected myself to religious lessons and debates as I sought to find answers to the eternal questions – But not once in over 78 years of asking has any religious leader, teacher, scholar or believer been able to give any answer other than the same opposing deflections you have. Just because I cannot prove there is not a god does not mean there is one and of course the opposite is true.

    I do not rule out the possibility of god, all I ask is evidence that he or she exists before I am prepared to bare my life for him. Whereas you believe, you have faith in the unseen and untouchable without evidence.

    So when you make a statement ‘prove me that Quran is not from God’ I am unable to do so and nor will anyone else because before that can happen we have to prove there is a god in the first instance.

    If we cannot prove there is a god how can we prove or disprove that he or she gave the 10 commandments or the holy koran? We cannot.

    Now I know you cannot prove the existence of god, if you could I would be a believer, so it comes down to faith – faith that is in most people brought about by the social and educational norms of the society.

    Part of that social conditioning in Islam is via the head cover, it is a throwback and a justification and acceptance of mans domination over women in so many ways – now if your god likes that – well all I can say is I am glad he’s not found me

    BTW – blind belief and imposition of said belief on others is rather arrogant in my aged eyes

  • anna_gee

    Oh my.. It’s you who need to learn more about referring. My comment up
    there was for the writer of the article. She’s Muslim, so I assumed she
    already knows about the obligation. And which part of my statement that I don’t know the difference between hair and bossom? Funny.

    And if you read again, this article didn’t against hijab, and my comment didn’t about blaming her about her choice, I just criticized the way she blamed others. And if you read carefully, the writer even clearly stated that she’s not against hijab. So why you? I guess you’re not even a woman. So you exactly don’t have to wear hijab. Why don’t you just leave us with our own choice? Like you already said, “I believe in allowing people to make their own decisions”. So, implement it.

    • devine

      “with our own choice”… we every of your post you demonstrate that it is actually not your own choice…

  • freewill maunye

    and thats why the scholars are wrong in interpreting the quran, also they were wrong in their vision of muhammad. just as simple as that, true muhammad is as depicted by quran, but if you ask scholar you will have someone maniac warmonger with crazy sex taste. you belive the moslem scholar? you are with them arent you?

  • DianKuswandini

    That’s not my excuse not to wear hijab.
    You’ve failed to read between the lines, and that’s your own problem :D

  • DianKuswandini

    1) There’s nothing against any Indonesian laws to spread my arguments in a writing. If you find my writing/article is offensive in any way, feel free to file a complaint to the authority. I’ll be honored to see you in court.
    2) It’s done and published, nothing can be done about it (and even there is…
    … who are you again? A poule mouillée? Why don’t you write another article on your own to express yourself. well, of course… if you’re courageous enough to reveal your REAL identity :D

  • devine

    Until only about 10-12 years ago almost NOBODY wore a hijab in Indonesia. So you are saying that they were all bad Muslims for the last 200- 300 years?
    A hijab is a Arabic / Middle Eastern “cultural” thing and not prescribed by the Al-Qur’an.

    So why in your opinion did Indonesians not wear the hijab… and why is it now all so important for some of you?

    • nyquist frequency

      can you prove to semak belukar that quran is not from god or definitely from god ? I saw lot of your argument using quran as source ie ‘A hijab is a Arabic / Middle Eastern “cultural” thing and not prescribed by the Al-Qur’an.’ Can you explain that?

      • TalkingEid

        it’s not up to devine or anyone else to prove something didn’t come from God. It’s up to the ‘god botherers’ to prove it did.

        • nyquist frequency

          he uses quran for his arguments, so he is what?

  • normalfault oil trap

    there are some logic to be followed to prove about existence or non existence of free will, also there are some logic to be followed when tryin to understand the source of quran

  • normalfault oil trap

    there are some logic to be followed to prove about existence or non existence of free will, also there are some logic to be followed when tryin to understand the source of quran

  • bystander

    Quote 1:

    I said “lazy” just for an example of “something bad”. To represent the ones who said something bad about the writer, because she chose not to wear hijab
    End Quote1

    Answer Quote 1:

    I apolopize when I missunderstood your analogy.

    Somehow I thought you wanted to bring this example to clarify why a hijab is an obligation, with_

    a.) the class being the religious community,

    b.) the teacher being god (making the rules /assignments),

    c.) the “good” students (with you one of them), who make their assignments without question, being the muslims that follow every detail that is written in the quran (without question)

    and

    c.) the writer as the “bad” (in your example labeld as lazy student) student who puts thought if the assignments are reasonable.
    again sorry if somehow I missunderstood your analogy.

    Quote 2:

    Anyway, the student might won’t take the class if he/she thinks that the class always give him/her silly assignments. It’s his/her choice to join the class or not.

    End Quote2

    Answer Quote 2
    So actually what you are saying is: If class A with a subject, a student is interested in, includes some assignments that are somehow “silly” (e.g. because they are outdated),

    it is preferable that the students just looks for another class B with the same subject but where the assignments are more to his liking / (up do date).

    Quote 3:

    But once he/she decides to join, he/she considered as a student of the class, and all the students have to follow all the rules in it.

    End Quote3

    Answer Quote 3

    So what you are saying is: instead of discuss / (improve) the quality for the classA it is better to just silently bend to the rules right?

    Ok here a little history example. In the beginning of the history of modern medicine it was required for Doctors to be able to speak or at least read ancient latin (you know the language the ancient romans used). Although the latin wasn´t being talked anymore. This made it incredible hard for many medical students who hadn´t been taught latin in school and in many cases, students who were talented in medicine, could not attend medical causes cause they could not pass the latin test. It took a long discussion until this “rule” of being able to speak latin to be able to graduate medicine was abolished (because it was silly),

  • bystander

    What you originally were doing was calling TalkingEid a racist using a terminology that is controversial, when used in a context that is in no relation to the subject “race”. TalkingEid realized that and corrected.

    IF your intention really is to:

    QUOTE:What I meant was, the word “racism” is a bit globalize now, not only about people’s biological races, but many factors also considered.

    end Quote

    Then use the right terminology instead to use a flawed one.
    I know i know the term racism is generally used in that context, (so your mistake, in using the wrong terminology is understandable, but not excusable)

  • TalkingEid

    How does this explain the number of women who board planes in other countries wearing lipstick and mini skirts, but arrive in Jakarta wearing a hijab?

  • TalkingEid

    so when do you plan to start thinking for yourself?

    • bystander

      what makes you think, that i don´t think for myself?

  • TalkingEid

    Just questions again, never answers. Normal brainwashed Muslim response.

  • TalkingEid

    If you think you words mean what you THINK they mean, not how they are defined in dictionaries, communication is impossible. Please get an education before attempting to communicate with the rest of us.
    Repeat – Islam is NOT a race. But it is always easier to play the rac card than to use logic to defend your position right?

  • Pow

    From what I’ve heard, hijab was sort of prohibited in the previous regime, that’s why the trend has just popped up recently. True Islam is what has been written in Quran and hadith. Furthermore, Q.S. 24:31 and 33:59 say it all about hijab obligation. Humans tend to be so arrogant and search for justification to rebel. May Allah bless you :)

    • devine

      prohibited in previous regime… yeah right… and the 200 years before the previous regime…? It is not in the Quran and hadith is disputed and full of interpretation issues …
      Bless you too :)

  • bystander

    Quote:

    the quran itself is the ‘miracle of our time’, it contains facts that it must have come from a supreme being.

    end Quote.

    And to what “facts” would you refer to? Please don´t tell me to read the quran for myself, because I have already done it and I didn´t find any “facts” that must have come from an supreme being.

  • Voxclara

    If your mother or grandmother are over 50 then ask them if hijab was commonly worn when they were young. Another thing, why there is hardly any hijab clad images of women in any Indon painting that’s painted more than 30 years ago? Devine is correct, there was hardly any hijab worn even during the Suharto period. Are you even an Indon ?

  • bystander

    Quote:
    quran said Haman is the pharaoh helper and it is proven after people can read the hirogliph, the number of word yaum(day) occured 365 times.

    end Quote.

    Why would that be a miracle?

  • Slamet Jalan

    Deddy, honestly I am so tired with claim ‘without-islam-indonesia-safe’ or otherwise. You could argue about this endlessly, but please find someone else below if you find this topic attractive.

    I posted the previous comment because devine created a point to infer that hijab was just a social phenomenon by manipulating the reason why there were only a few moslems wearing hijab in 80′s-2000, he was totally ahistoric. And how can you explain the name I mentioned ‘have had as much sin as Soeharto or more? Never observe and self-claim? So you are equally ahistoric as devine…

    I’ll happily explain who they were to you. They were the pioneer of the very first Indonesian women congress in 1928 which had the only one mission, the Independence of Indonesia. Education, teaching natives how to write and read was their main activity. By taking this method, they expected that Indonesian people could read newspapers and book which contains our founding fathers ideas and plan. They were successfull, because it was the trigger when Indonesian people demanded the Dutch Colonial a proper education right ( in which they didn’t have ). Umm.. wait, I almost forget one thing, the congress represented many groups of women in Indonesia, one of which was “Wanita Katholiek” ( Chatolic women ) that is still exist until NOW. Now can you realize that what you said ‘didn’t have clean motive’ was teribbly dirty slander?

    ______________________________________________

    Btw, concerning about how Voxclara call Indonesian with irritating word ‘Indon’, I put him as my ignore list.

    • Deddy K.

      Wait I thought you did not want to argue that point if you separate Religion and state than Indonesia would indeed be a much more safer country?
      I’m sorry was it really the trigger? I like how you pick and choose the so called trigger for Indonesia Independence. Hehehe your cute. There were many determining factors that prompting Indonesia to rise and fight for their independence.
      Yes I can say no clean motives. As in every push by any religion for “education” there is a clear motive to push their religion as the one true religion. That is always the case with missionaries going to teach ‘natives’ (like how you call our Indonesian people natives before being taught to read and write by your so called Islamic heroes) to read and write, which is to push religion. It’s okay that’s what paid for them to do it, and even your high intellects need to eat and live.
      Before Islam in Indonesia was more lenient and peaceful, with a live and let live attitude, (your religion is yours, and my religion is mine, don’t bother me and I won’t bother you, we all live in peace because my faith is strong for myself, and what you do and how you practice your faith does not insult or bother me.) Now in this current climate of “if you don’t follow my type of islam you are not muslim, you are islamophobic, etc etc” there is a much more aggressive Islam in place in Indonesia. Women who were previously Good Muslims by all accounts, then brainwashed into thinking that a hijab was mandatory or they will spend their existence in fiery pits of hell, perpetuated by these brainwashed women using this more Radical Islam train of thought to publicly look down on women who don’t wear the hijab.
      Again goes back to what I was saying earlier. The multiple methods of coercion used since the Fall of Soeharto using Democracy as shield to push their agenda forward, from PPP, PKS, PKB in the Government, HTI, FPI, FUI on the streets, radical clerics spouting jihad against non believers, and even ministers saying, “it’s your fault for not following my islam, either convert, shut up or something terrible will happen to you.” Is the main reason now a days you find more and more women wearing the Jilbab in Indonesia. Peer Pressure (from those brainwashed), Radical Muslims saying women who don’t wear jilbabs are unclean and deserve to be raped, etc etc. Sad affair.

      Where are the Muslims that truly had such a strong faith that they didn’t have to push their religion on others?

      • Slamet Jalan

        Begini ya mas, susah banget saya mau ngejelasin balik kalau apapun yang berkaitan dengan islam, entah itu aktivisnya atau apapun Anda serang balik dengan tuduhan tak berdasar kaya radikalisme yang sebenarnya sama sekali ngga berdasar dan gak sesuai dengan kejadian sejarah yang ada.

        Kan udah dijelasin gitu, kongres nya gak cuma diwakili tokoh tokoh islam, ada juga tokoh tokoh dari daerah maupun non islam. Kok bebal banget Anda ya semuanya dipukul rata bahwa yang islam lagi melakukan aksi misionaris dengan paksaan. Cara menyimpulkan macam apa itu? Ngomong ngomong tau ngga siapa ‘founding fathers’ yang saya maksud? Apa ideologinya? Apa peran – perannya dalam sejarah kemerdekaan? Ngomong ngalor ngidul keluarnya radikalisme lagi – radikalisme lagi. Coba dong jelaskan dimana radikalnya dan bagaimana kejadiaannya tercatat dalam sejarah?

        Anda ahistoris, berpikiran tertutup dan saya rasa Anda cukup bisa dianggap radikal – dengan arah yang berlawanan dengan FPI, FUI dan sekitarnya

  • bystander

    Oh good I though it was just me :D

  • bystander

    Quote:
    Because muhammad and you and all of us cannot write something that happen in the future. You got it?
    Also, does a medieval arabian knows an area as lowest point in the earth relative to the other elevation?

    end Quote

    Since there are few to no historical documents about ancient arab of that peroid of time, except the quran itself, it is hard to say what the ancient arabs knew or not. What IS know, it that the ancient arabs, muhammad included, were trading with the Eastern roman empire. It is also know that Muhammad was an accomplished and seasoned general. So it stands to reason that he would be very good at evaluating the strenghts and capabilities of armies and (as a bystander) would be able to evaluate the outcome of a battle, even of an entire war. what makes me doubt the validity of the verse as a prophesy is the given timespan of 2 -9 year. (with the 7 year the actual defeat of the persian empire). What would have been impressive:

    If the prophesy would have mentioned the EXACT date, (you know, … since god knows the future…..)

    • geoffrey

      geoff didnt talk about the persian empire, you have wrong perception.
      yes of course He can put the date, your requirement is similar with the question of the color of the heifer, you have read the quran, surely you know that story :)

    • geoffrey

      of course He can put date per your requirement :) it is similar with the color of the heifer multiple question, you have read the quran so you know the story :D

  • devine

    Thank you for your input. But I personally still rather see our female population in traditional Indonesian cloth i.e. Kebaya…

  • geoff uk

    yes, i want to read it, also, is there a book of his prophecies? pls write me below a quote from the you told accurate book, including a chapter and number of prophecy from this colm kille. A real quran have an interlock number of arabic alphabets indicated by the beginning of chapters. Does the scripture from this colm kille have this? or, do you really have a knowledge in quran or just blatantly put words here as opposition?

    • TalkingEid

      yes – you can google it. Unlike others, I am not here to do your thinking for you.

      • geoff birmingham

        google it? i thought it is so popular like quran, old test and new test, veda, mahabharat etc. You didnt read it did ye?

  • Good,Bad and Ugly

    Yes, it is about what you believe. But when you claim that your beliefs are ‘truth’ then you are obliged to show your proof if you want to make public claims;

    or your claims are fraud and you must face the laws based on logic and proof.

  • wenner deconvolution

    You are the funniest guy here, how can you know if Allah did but he didnt? You just blatantly put words as opposition, with baseless knowledge.

    • talibantabbies

      allah didn’t because he didn’t, if he did, where is he? do you have his direct number too? maybe you can give me his number and we can ask him. i believe he “told” this to a cave dweller 2000 odd years ago and everyone has to believe him or suffer some fate in the after life that cannot be proven or if we discredit his claim we have to suffer death. sounds really suspicious in my opinion.

  • TalkingEid

    watch out devine – it’s pretty clear some posters here think they have a direct line to Allah……….

  • rustynails

    No it’s stupid comment and no opinion just sprouting your particular version of brainwashing. Any reasonable person knows there are many many various interpretations of the Quran and the Hadith on this and a myriad other issues.

    It is difficult not to feel sorry for people like dodol, what a waste of a human mind.

  • Muslim and proud :)

    I am a muslim young girl and i will be wearing hijab in about 4 days. You cannot imagine how happy I am to be doing that. And no, my parents didnt forced me to wear it. I read some of the comments, and I think that it is what they say, about people in indonesia being bad muslims is very wrong. First of all, they arent bad muslims, but they dont match the most important muslim women criteria. Hijab isnt an option, it is a duty and something you have to do for your own sake. I agree with who wrote that this article is “stupid” but with a gentle word : narrow minded. You say that : then all indonesia is wrong for 300-400 years? I tell you: yes. Islam isnt for arabs, and hijab doesnt represent arabic culture. Hijab isnt a tradition, it is something just like praying daily. People automatically give themselves excuses not to wear hijab. But this beautiful hair and skin and body of yours is a gift from god, and this precious gift should be protected just as god ordered you. You can still look pretty while wearing hijab. And i really think people who give excuses to not wear it, are people who are controlled by the modern life. I went to the UK, and people there dont judge my mo, or aunts or cousins by their hijab. But people who think this is “tradional” costume for arabs doesnt really know anything about islam. People who say: throw your Quran to the garbage, dont really know what islam is, they just see what they think islam represents. Unlike how people think, that muslims hate other religions, muslims are actually very open minded, and im talking here about the right muslims, not the ones who think they are “better muslims” by hating other religions. The most important islamic criteria is believing in all the prophets before prophet muhammad and all of their books. You may think that i am very religious, but in fact i am not one of these too religious people. I comr from a normal family, that cares alot about obeying what God tells us to do. I read Quran, pray and will be wearing hijab, and in the same time, i have fun in the limits that God has put. I go to waterparks (dressed in appropritate bathing suits), parks, malls

    • bystander

      quote:

      I come from a normal family, that cares alot about obeying what God tells us to do. I read Quran, pray and will be wearing hijab, and in the same time, i have fun in the limits that God has put. I go to waterparks (dressed in appropritate bathing suits), parks, malls

      end quote.

      Really? Then what about verse 33:33

      “And ABIDE in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. …

      And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification.”

      the verses before and after 33:33 mostly praise mostesty and the greatness of allah.

      Again i am just a ignorant kuffar. But to me 33:33 suggests that a women should not leave the house.

      • talibantabbies

        wait… i can feel that there is going to be another re-interpretation of the quran that refute your claim very soon… you can’t win against logic that is made up as you go along

        • bystander

          quote

          wait… i can feel that there is going to be another re-interpretation of the quran that refute your claim very soon.

          end quote

          Interpretation? I thought the quran is supposed to be “truth” and “facts”. Dont tell me that you have to interprete the word of god! :D

          qoute

          you can’t win against logic that is made up as you go along

          end quote

          1. ) how else is logic made up?

          2.) what makes you think is is made while “going along”?

    • devine

      Hahaha; “But this beautiful hair and skin and body of yours is a gift from god, and this precious gift should be protected just as god ordered you”… So make sure that nobody (except a very few) can see your beautiful hair and skin…. why did God give you these attributes if he does not want them to be seen? Looking forward to your explanation…

      • Guest

        To see your obedience. That’s it.

        • devine

          Oh… I see… the I am better than others answer. Why? Because God loves everybody EQUALY and not only those who put on a veil…

  • MadWorld

    By saying that the sunnah & hadith is not man made, compiled from the tradition of the yew, christian & pagan arab, is comparable by believing that the sun circles around the Earth.
    Typical islam, believing it is the lingua sacra said by Muhammad. End of discussion !!! By not believing the holy words is comparable to blasphemy, Amen.

  • talibantabbies

    the more you argue about religion and its laws the more you realise that its all just made up. i was really religious once and kept arguing with people who are more liberal until to the point where i decided to dig real deep into religion and force myself to ask questions about my faith and the inconsistencies surrounding it. i finally came to an epiphany that only men would be so concerned about what other men wears, eats or say that they make up gods and spread its fear to make others fall in line.

    Just look at all the pretentious actresses that put on the hijab and plays religious dramas during the fasting months. dirty candy wrapped up in nice packaging is still dirty candy.

    • bystander

      Quote

      the more you argue about religion and its laws the more you realise that its all just made up

      end quote.

      No they wont realise. If they would realise, we wouln´t have this conversation:D

  • talibantabbies

    we do know that the quran was created by Muhammad who claims that god gave it to him… him alone… and he uses that fact to force people around him to wage war against people who were against him and commit atrocities claiming it is the wish of god, people who were at that time not educated, who were very ignorant on the science of things, people who were fearful of ‘god’ as they have no understanding of how things came about. And so the fraud is propagated over centuries and it becomes the truth. for many muslims this is the truth and will never question it just because it says in the quran that who ever questions it faces death, a book that comes from 1 man that he says god gave to him…no witness at all… are u slowly seeing what i am getting at??

    now we imagine a scenario in modern times, i were to come out of a cave say from central java. i were to hold up a book, written by me, and my claim is that god gave me the vision, the vision to create this book of law and to govern men with this book and that i am the chosen one among all you lowly beings, i am chosen to tell you what to eat or wear or how you should behave if not you suffer the wrath of god or you face death if you dare question me. the law allows me to have many wives and treat them not as equal, that they should be covered up as they are objects and makes men horny like the devil if not covered. I suspect none will believe me but drag me out and beat me to death.

    nobody in this century will ever again believe another person who claims the vision of god… why, because we have came a long way in scientific discovery and incredible human intellectual evolution that makes us question the things around us constantly. as more time passes and men’s intelligence increases, they will pick apart everything that is not consistent and continuously find solutions for the betterment of society and its people. religious people will become fewer and fiercer in their defense of their religion and will claw harder to stay relevant in a society that no longer needs them as they continue to impede the progress of human advancement. when all wars end and the dust settle into the rubble all that will be left standing is the truth… that men are truly alone in this universe and we will never truly understand our short existence in the grand cosmic scheme of things.

  • Benjamin Joseph

    thanks for tellin history, the roman indeed defeated at the lowest point of the earth area, you read to much and get twisted, Geoff didnt talk about the jews, he talked about the true non deviated moslem victory.
    Thanks for telling that you learn arabic, can you tell me the one who has brainwashed me ?
    Sorry, I do not explain God, human seek His explanations in nature. I also will not add any talk about the gematrical function of arabic alphabets in Quran or even sayin about the related number of related things in Quran as continued proofs that Muhammad the medieval arabian cannot make Quran, your limited brain will explode.
    Of course what Geoff has put were not concrete evidences, you decide and you are free to decide(thats what quran said).
    The deviated moslem and deviated christian are the world’s worst examples of believers. No other faith kills, murders, maims, corrupts, cheats and lies as much as they do.

    One thing, you do not have to read too much, God evidences are simple and easy. But if you ask deviated moslem, youll get horrible.

  • claravox

    i also encourage ye to cross checking all the related words and statements in bible so you can realize that even contradiction will not put you away from polytheist thinking. Compare to quran, bible is winner for contradictive teaching. How is your debate with darren? he put you in the hole didnt he?

    • guest

      blind people argues with blind people about something they never experience/see will never result anything

  • bystander

    quote
    If you want to understand what real Islam is, look at the scriptures and the prophet’s life
    end quote

    Didn´t the prophet go to war alot?

  • indri

    Dear @diankuswandini:disqus,
    Highly appreciate your brave statement and feeling grateful that you stand your ground of what you are believing. I believe that religion is an individual commitment to God, not to others.

    And thank you, your article also answers my questions, I am non-moslem female, been traveling in some exotic and also modern countries in our time. One of the most exotic ones are Turkey and Egypt, modern ones as the US or our close neighbour Australia… both share one thing in common that not all moslem women wear hijab. (Some might not be consistent, like take it off or put it on before the plane lands, depending on the destination). Now I see it that women have choice as men, and if we bring this to broader perspective as human we might have to adapt in many ways, but not necessarily adopting it as ours…
    As for Indonesians, we are a democratic secular country, with the largest moslem population, think we should be proud for this. think we should not be trying too hard to be accepted, think we should just be who we are. we are Indonesians.

  • marfulan

    Dear Sister,
    Thank-you so much for writing this article and at this time. Last night I was praying alongside an Indonesian sister during Taraweeh, afterwards when I greeted this sister with Salaams she did not return it but did go into a lecture on how I should wear socks in the mosques when praying, that it is okay for men not to, but women are obligated to. When I told her that , in all the places I lived in the world and muslims I had encountered none had told me I was olbligated to wear socks while praying. I was otherwise dressed appropriately in loose modest clothing. I had never seen this women in our mosque before.
    At the end of the day, it does not matter whether or not I have socks on my feet, what matters is what is in my heart while praying. I just never get the fixation these people have on some of the minor details that add to the long list of Islamic rules that provide more of a distraction from what is real, our orientation towards Allah.

  • tralala

    why only muslimah?

    how about men? since they’ll be buried too — covered from head to toe in that white kafan cloth, just the SAME like women. shouldn’t they wear hijab as well then? :p :p

  • Mohammad

    To ray, it’s not the fact that wearing a hijab is just some type of command, it is for the sake of Allah, but to protect you from the gaze of men, Now a days i can see why this has been such a big deal, we as a world have become more aroused and more pursued by the women that do not cover. “We all as humans understand that women are perceived differently and it’s been proven for a fact” I am not trying to be on the offense of this, but this is a value that is generally for the sake of protection, for insecurity and for Allah (swt).

    I completely understand otherwise, but inside I believe in Islam and it’s protection towards all humankind. So you are absolutely right when it comes to whether or not this will depict your afterlife. This is just one sin committed everyday, but ask yourself is it worth it on a regular basis, or on Ramadan where you “should” completely rid yourself from all sin. “We all should do what we believe in” or “we all should do what is right”

  • bystander

    Just as a reference. Further down in the discussion, someone called: anna_gee

    was arguing that the ‘khimar’ was some earlier version of the hijab.

  • bystander

    So far I counted around 100 verses calling to fight the unbelivers. In theri context some are defensive some are agressive.

  • Darren1

    Then how do you explain those quotes from the Quran?

    [There shall be no compulsion in religion. Distinct has now become the right way from [the way of] error: hence, he who rejects the powers of evil and believes in God has indeed taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way: for God is all-hearing, all-knowing] ( Al-Baqarah 2:256)

    [If it had been your Lord's will, all who are in the earth would have believed. Will you, then, force the people to become believers?] (Yunus 10:99)

    [And if they surrender themselves unto Him (i.e. God), they are on the right path; but if they turn away – behold, thy duty (O Muhammad,) is no more than to deliver the message: for God sees all that is in [the hearts of] His creatures.] (Aal `Imran 3:20)

    [Hence, pay heed unto God, and pay heed unto
    the Messenger, and be ever on your guard [against evil]; and if you
    turn away, then know that Our Messenger’s only duty is a clear delivery of the message [entrusted to him].] (Al-Ma’idah 5:92)

    [But if they turn away [from thee, O Prophet, know that] We have not sent thee to be their keeper: thou art not bound to do more than deliver the message [entrusted to thee] .] (Ash-Shura 42:48)

  • Amme

    Your faith in God counts. We will be accounted for individually not as family or corporately but as an individual.

    • mauriceg

      You make assumptions that there is a god. No faith needed. No silly dressing up, and worrying about what others think. That should give you an opportunity to figure out that helping other people (not sky pixies), who are worse off than you, makes a difference. Of course, now no deity is looking down at you to see how pious or adequately covered you are. Please use the brain you were born with.

      • japethtwelvetribes

        you make assumption there is no god, wrong assumption though

    • dingus

      And is covering up what God gave you being a good person?

  • Sasa

    Writer doesn’t justify the right or wrong of not wearing hijab. She wrote to ask not to be discriminated just because she is not wearing the hijab.

  • Kembang Tahu

    I don’t think she meant it as a justification, more like a defense from prosecution of others. Have you, DodolEdan, UNDERSTOOD the Quran and its interpretations and also Hadith books from Bukhari? I doubt.

  • gateofalexander

    wow u look smart, are these now popular sciences so i can easily know the universe 13.82 billion yrs and falling muon feels the time is relative aha….Quran said that earth was ready for life in the fourth stages from six total stages of universe evolution, so if it is really 13.82 then a supporting life earth is 4.6. Wow, me and you are just nothingness compared to 13.82B. I have to be humble, i know nothing :)

  • Voxclara

    You are obviously deficient in the reading comprehension department. Why is quoting the Quran equals to spreading hate? Are saying those quranic verses are hateful?

  • rehan mateen

    first you understand islam and hijaab properly and rhen say something..and you have no right to interfare in the law of allah.dont think about the candies and all just think hijab is order of allah.

  • rehan mateen

    READ THIS OPEN YOUR EYES.AND STOP CALLING YOU A MUSLIM

    Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu’minin (R.A)

    : The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil.

    [Kitab Al-Salat of Sunan Abu-Dawud. 064; al-Tirmidhi, 377]

    Allah does not accept the prayer of a female who has reached the age of puberty except if she is wearing a head covering (khimaar).”

    This was recorded by al-Tirmidhi, Ahmad, Abu Dawud and ibn Majah. Sahih aljam’e 2/1280

    =====================================================================================

    Verses and hadeeth about Correct Hijaab

    Verses that have to do with hijab:

    1 – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, headcover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allaah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful”

    [al-Noor 24:31]

    2 – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And as for women past childbearing who do not expect wedlock, it is no sin on them if they discard their (outer) clothing in such a way as not to show their adornment. But to refrain (i.e. not to discard their outer clothing) is better for them. And Allaah is All-Hearer, All-Knower”

    [al-Noor 24:60]

    “Women past childbearing” are those who no longer menstruate, so they can no longer get pregnant or bear children.

    We shall see below the words of Hafsah bint Sireen and the way in which she interpreted this verse.

    3 – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allaah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

    [al-Ahzaab 33:59]

    4 – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “O you who believe! Enter not the Prophet’s houses, unless permission is given to you for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation. But when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken your meal, disperse without sitting for a talk. Verily, such (behaviour) annoys the Prophet, and he is shy of (asking) you (to go); but Allaah is not shy of (telling you) the truth. And when you ask (his wives) for anything you want, ask them from behind a screen, that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts. And it is not (right) for you that you should annoy Allaah’s Messenger, nor that you should ever marry his wives after him (his death). Verily, with Allaah that shall be an enormity”

    [al-Ahzaab 33:53]

  • rehan mateen

    A woman is commanded in Islam not to come too close to men. She is not, however, prohibited from going to places where men are present as long as she does not approach them or place herself in a position where she is alone with them.

  • Agung Syahputra

    Whatever floats on your boat.

  • Maria

    @4b0fa873c5fe0269878ae77996d7a13e:disqus

    well sister Allah is our creator, we can’t ask Allah ”why He has done so and so” It’s Allah’s will. But whatever Allah does there is Hikmah behind it; as Allah said in the Noble Qur’an Allah want to test us, the life is a test so He has created men like this, He simply wanna test them by this. They will be questioned for their actions and behavior. Anyway, you should wear Hijab for Allah who has commanded it.

    wassalam :)

  • love allah

    And why do you not believe in Allah while the Messenger invites you to believe in your Lord and He has taken your covenant, if you should [truly] be believers? (Surah Hadid verse 8)
    On the Day you see the believing men and believing women, their light proceeding before them and on their right, [it will be said], “Your good tidings today are [of] gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein you will abide eternally.” That is what is the great attainment.(Surah Hadid Verse 12)
    On the [same] Day the hypocrite men and hypocrite women will say to those who believed, “Wait for us that we may acquire some of your light.” It will be said, “Go back behind you and seek light.” And a wall will be placed between them with a door, its interior containing mercy, but on the outside of it is torment.(Surah Hadid Verse 13)
    The hypocrites will call to the believers, “Were we not with you?” They will say, “Yes, but you afflicted yourselves and awaited [misfortune for us] and doubted, and wishful thinking deluded you until there came the command of Allah . And the Deceiver deceived you concerning Allah .(Surah Hadid Verse 14)
    So today no ransom will be taken from you or from those who disbelieved. Your refuge is the Fire. It is most worthy of you, and wretched is the destination.(Surah Hadid Verse 15)
    Has the time not come for those who have believed that their hearts should become humbly submissive at the remembrance of Allah and what has come down of the truth? And let them not be like those who were given the Scripture before, and a long period passed over them, so their hearts hardened; and many of them are defiantly disobedient.(Surah Hadid Verse 16)

    So my dear sister i am just warning you but i am not forcing you

  • love allah

    I love to wear Niquab!!!!!!!!

  • imoet

    In that case: Men should wear Hijab !

  • tahugejrot

    mini skirt … bikini …. are import fashion too ….
    what’s your point ?

  • Maria

    Who told you in Islam Men & women are not equal? And here what do you mean by “equality” ? Define “equality” and please tell me how it is related with wearing hijab? we are talking about Hijab not equality. These two are different things.. It’s like I’m talking about food and you’re about weather.

  • justback

    why is it frustrating and irritating? A hijab does not make you better. If you want everybody to wear one why do you want to exclude some folks? They are people too and they are there to satisfy the “equal” men…

  • Maria

    A man must cover from the navel up to and including his knees. And should lower his gaze. This is the hijab for men.

    Men and women doesn’t have same physical features thats why there is difference in their Hijab, there should be, It’s a common sense.

    • justback

      If it was common sense we would not have this discussion…

    • justback

      So tell me then in what way hair from men are different from those of women???
      We are talking about the hijab here not about walking around naked or half naked…

  • Never Ask

    Nun’s take the choice to be nuns and with it the headgear. Are you saying the ladies below have the same choice?

    In Pakistan last week A cleric cut his wife into pieces for refusing to wear a veil and sending their children to school. He deemed his action the best way to “punish his wife for rebelling against Allah’s orders”.
    He wrote that he wanted all women to learn from their example.

    He said he had not wanted his children to study at a school. He said Farzana Bibi had enrolled their children into an English medium school against his will. He said he had wanted to punish her for that, too.

    He said he had been telling her to cover her face with a veil when she stepping outside into the yard , but she had not listened.

    He also wrote that he did not want to be responsible for her sins and thus killed her.

    Is this the equality you Maria talks about? There are millions of women violently oppressed using Islam

  • hw0388@nkios.com

    justback

    I Know that Allah does not judge people on what they wear but ALHAMDULILAAhhhhhhhhh I AM WEARING A NIQUAB ALHAMDULILAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I AM VERY HAPPYYYYYYYYYY THAT I AM WEARING IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • justback

      Good if you are happy… would you be happy too not wearing it???
      I dont think real happiness has anything to do with what kind of cloth you wear…

      • en0376@nkios.com

        My Dear
        Do you ever find happiness in doing a good action? the answer is after we did the action then you will find it, Because Allah said that if we obey him he will reward us in this world and the next and he will make us feel more happy, and those who disobey him the will only have a short time to enjoy this life and the next they will gain NOTHING!

  • Cranberry

    If men and women are equal in Islam, why can’t women have more than one husband? Women are physically more able to handle more than one man than any man can handle more than one woman. Women are not equal when they are forced to have genital mutilation so they no longer experience pleasure. Women are not equal when they are forced to cover their face and bodies merely to protect men from weakness. If a man is so bothered by the skin of a woman, perhaps, he needs to see a psychiatrist. Why not pray to your God for some self control and restraint?

    In Islam women are nothing but property like they were before the time of Christ. So many Indonesian Muslim women in America can’t do a thing without their husband because they can’t drive or speak English. These poor women have no life skills or parenting skills; they don’t know how to tell their children to do their homework or to clean their own rooms. I tried to help a woman with three children, she’s stuck at home all day with three children, she doesn’t speak English, drive a car, or know basic math. Her children don’t socialize with any Americans because her husband forbids it. Her Indonesian Islamic husband who drives a cab, beats her daily and he has a mistress who he pays for as well. The Islamic Indonesian woman is already living in Hell, whether she covers her face or not.

    Women in Indonesia should be more concerned about the corruption, illiteracy and poverty in their country than whether or not to wear a hijab. There are hypocrites in every religion.

    • tahugejrot

      You took some bad cases and then generalizing it … What’s the point?
      Why can’t women have more that one husband ?? … You must be kidding ..aren’t you ??

      • justback

        I don’t think he is kidding? The talk is about equality and you should answer why the women are not allowed to do the same as man. Please explain….

    • en0376@nkios.com

      My Dear listen to me carefully I am a person who is NOT oppressed in my Islam I Practice it everyday and one of my CHOICE is to wear the NIQUAB.
      do you ever see a modestly woman how dos she look she don’t be near boys and this and that, and what about an immodest she dress like she is almost naked and she is HOT and you will find a lot of boy-friends around her don’t you think that Islam protect a woman!?
      let me tell you this
      a man from Saudi-Arabia said his real driver-license (As long he did NOT fall int accident) Is a lady he said that one time he remember that his wife is in the car wile he was driving and the police stop him but when the police see his wife he let him go (WHY, BECAUSE TEHRE IS A WOMAN IS THIS NOT RESPECT!?)

    • en0376@nkios.com

      My Dear I was going to answer all of doubt in one comment but it is too long so I put separate

      My Dear you said that, Indonesian Muslim women in America can’t do a thing without their husband because they can’t drive or speak English you also said that These women have no life skills or parenting skills; they don’t know how to tell their children to do their homework or to clean their own rooms

      let me tell you this it is obligatory(wajib) upon them to learn, Allah make it obligatory on to learn and if she is in-need of the community like being a doctor, Nurse then her husband can’t prevent her from being one ok!

      driving is HALAL and if she make a law at the time of her marriage then he CAN’T break the law that she make as long it is halal

  • human2

    So many Muslim women say this. My reply is always. Try taking it off. See the reactions of your neighbors, your husband and your friends. Do not tell them you are doing it as an experiment. See their reactions, see how understanding they are and indeed how comfortable you feel, see if your choice is indeed a choice or something which now you no longer have power over….

    • en0376@nkios.com

      @disqus_eJM5h8Q9nb:disqus

      My Dear,
      You Have NOT yet reply to my question why?
      Is it too hard for you to answer?
      taker Bye :)

      • human2

        I did try to reply to your question but I guess my comments upset someone at JG and it was deleted. I will tone it down and try again. My reply was “no” A jilbab does not protect women. Why not you ask? The answer is very simple. If what you said was true and covered women mean there is no temptation and therefore men can control themselves. However the rape statistics in Islamic countries are through the roof. The stats are quite horrific and they exclude the numbers of married women who are forced to have sex with their husbands. This is not seen as a crime as they are married.

        It seems that covering women does nothing to deter rape. The only way to create a safe world for women is to educate men to control themselves around women no matter what they wear. Men should be conditioned to see women as equals whether wearing a bikini or nothing at all. Respecting women does not mean we have to control and confine women to wear certain clothes or to only interact with certain people. Respecting women is treating them as equal under all circumstances and in my case I put my wife before me in everyway. I Hope one day you can open your mind to the fact that women respond to respect and love in amazing ways. They will love you so much more strongly then if they simple fear breaking your rules.

  • human2

    My God respects all women whether clothed or in their birthday suits. My God forgives, my God excepts and embraces differences, my God sees men as being able to control their urges amongst women even when alone and by themselves. I respect my God… Blindly obeying without question is a dangerous way to live your life my advice is you live but once don’t let you life be controlled by a book written by men for men to the detriment of women.

  • Never ask

    You demonstrate the problem with Islam perfectly. Utopia, like heaven is a dream and it is at odds with the daily reality for many Muslim women. Many who live a life of violence and oppression, justified by Islamic teachings.

    Then you offer the standard cop out, ‘those who behave badly are misinterpreting the words’ at least you never said ‘they are not real Muslims’ another standard excuse.
    These have been used to excuse genocide, bombers, murderers, attacks on other groups, on other Muslims and so forth as long as I can remember.
    What I never see is any general action against groups, like the FPI for instance, by those like you who preach this Utopian message

    Your post BTW is an almost word for word copy and paste from
    http://www.islamswomen.com/articles/do_muslim_women_have_rights.php

    At this point I withdraw

  • Never Ask

    In fact you obey the men who represent him…

  • Never Ask

    For women – woven short skirts, sarongs, open shirts, no shirts are the traditional wear of Indonesians across the archipelago dating back to pre Islamic days and in many places still is.

    THAT is your clothing cultural heritage. Not the hijab
    Even in Java it was a fairly common thing to see the women in the fields with bare breast when I first arrived here 30 odd years ago, the practice continues in many parts of the nation.
    In North Africa and Pakistan too it was common to see women without the headscarf until the mid 1970′s before KSA money and ideology started to influence Islam. (For the worst)
    It is a self defeating argument to suggest the hijab or other Arabic wear for men and women are our cultural heritage because Tahu/just et al – they are not. In fact the bikini and mini skirts are more closely aligned to your heritage than the full covering Arab attire
    Traditional clothing tends to develop very much in line with the climate. In Arabia it is dry and gritty with huge temp swings – they needed to cover. In Indonesia it is hot and sweaty and people needed their skin to be free

  • justback

    Simply not true…

  • justback

    Of course it is related to equality. Because hair of men and woman are the same while women are required (in your opinion) have to hide them away…

  • justback

    They don’t have the same rights, an that is hence not equality…

  • hijabi

    May Allah guide you to wear hijab sis. Regarding that candy story, don’t take it personally as it is only an example. Hijab is indeed muslimah’s obligation to Allah. It is wajib. If you don’t wear it now, at least dress modestly and have an intention that someday Insha Allah you will wear it.

  • justback

    Imagine how many poor people you could support / help with the billions…

    • en0376@nkios.com

      @justback
      they may NOT Gave me the billions if I said that I am not going to take it off, they may say it is wast of time if the gave me the billions and they gain nothing from it lol talk to you later.
      Always have a smile :)

  • Voxclara

    Women are not equal to men in Islam.

    Source: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Women_are_Deficient_in_Intelligence
    “Prophet Muhammad’s declared that the majority of the inhabitants of Hell are women.[1] When asked why, he said it was because they are deficient in intelligence and religion, and because they are ungrateful to their husbands. Although Muslim apologists and female Muslims use a lot of creative arguments to explain away Muhammad’s declarations about women, they do not stand up to scrutiny. Here we will present evidence showing Muhammad’s belief that all women are less intelligent than their male counterparts; as well as examine and refute the common Muslim claims about the ahadith in question.”

    From the Hadith:
    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
    On ‘Id ul Fitr or ‘Id ul Adha Allah’s Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, “O people! Give alms.” Then he went towards the women and said. “O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women).” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is the reason for it?” He replied, “O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray.” Then he left. And when he reached his house, Zainab, the wife of Ibn Masud, came and asked permission to enter It was said, “O Allah’s Apostle! It is Zainab.” He asked, ‘Which Zainab?” The reply was that she was the wife of Ibn Mas’ub. He said, “Yes, allow her to enter.” And she was admitted. Then she said, “O Prophet of Allah! Today you ordered people to give alms and I had an ornament and intended to give it as alms, but Ibn Masud said that he and his children deserved it more than anybody else.” The Prophet replied, “Ibn Masud had spoken the truth. Your husband and your children had more right to it than anybody else.”
    Sahih Bukhari 2:24:541
    From the Quran:
    Yusuf Ali: O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah; For it is Good that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, – his heart is tainted with sin. And Allah knoweth all that ye do.

    Women grumble and are ungrateful to their husbands:
    Jabir b. ‘Abdullah reported: I observed prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the ‘Id day. He commenced with prayer before the sermon without Adhan and Iqama. He then stood up leaning on Bilal, and he commanded (them) to be on guard (against evil for the sake of) Allah, and he exhorted (them) on obedience to Him, and he preached to the people and admonished them. He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell. A woman having a dark spot on the cheek stood up and said: Why is it so, Messenger of Allah? He said: For you grumble often and show ingratitude to your spouse. And then they began to give alms out of their ornaments such as their earrings and rings which they threw on to the cloth of Bilal.
    Sahih Muslim 48:1926

    A woman is worth half that of a man:
    Qur’an 2:282 states that the second female witness is required (in lieu of a man) because the first woman may forget; therefore the second can remind her. This implies that women have bad memories and are prone, more so then men, to forget details. On first look, this explanation looks quite reasonable; however in the ahadith, Muhammad did not specify that the testimony of women, in financial cases only was the cause of their intelligence defects. If this were truly only about testimony for financial cases, then Muhammad would have specified this. His statement “Isn’t it true that the testimony of two women is equal to that of a man” strongly implies that two female witnesses are required for any type of testimony; and in no way implies that it is for financial testimony only. After all, if this is the deficiency in her intelligence; then Muhammad is clearly referring to the fact that Allah believes that women have bad memories; and this is the reason a woman is deficient.

  • human2

    Why should women have to cover themselves to protect
    themselves from men? Is this not saying that men are too weakminded to control themselves? It seems to me that Islam always turns the blame onto women whenmen lose control. She was out late or she was wearing a short skirt. I personally think a woman should, if she wishes be able to walk around town in her bikini. I am strong enough to see a naked woman and not lose control of my mind or body.

    The Hijab/Niquab is not necessary in societies where men have been educated to respect women no matter their religion, background and indeed what clothes they wear or choose not to. Women should never have to cover up because of weak men
    thats just sad. What a sad admission of weakness on behalf of all muslim men….

    One shouldn’t need the protection of a garment due to weak minded men. Society should teach men self control and that a women’s body is hers and hers alone. No matter the state of her clothing. Seems like you have a lot to learn en0376 before calling yourselves civilized.

  • TalkingEid

    my dear – women are NOT equal is Islam – that’s why you can only have 1 husband, and your ‘evidence’ in a court is worth only 25% of a man’s.
    Wake up and stop believing what MEN tell you.

  • justback

    No…

    • en0376@nkios.com

      My Dear,
      What you are NOT satisfied with?
      See you later :)

  • Voxclara

    Can’t you read? Several comments below assert that women are equal to men in Islam. I use Islamic scriptures to prove that this not so. Women are not equal to men in Islam. Muhammed said women are deficient in intelligence and in faith, that they are an ungrateful lot and he saw that hell is full of women. The testimony of a woman is half that of a man. This is how women are viewed in Islam, the religion of ‘peace’. There are ample evidence how women are treated in Islamic countries.
    You can shelf your op. level, soul, essence, and other claptraps, they are irrelevant in this topic!

  • TalkingEid

    Please show some references that DO prove it. Just your usual “it’s true because I believe it is true’ nonsense.

  • tahugejrot

    Based on scientific study, men’s brain is different than women’s brain… So common perception that men are generally more logically intelligent, dominant , less emotional …blablablab … that women are emotionally more expressive blabla … are confirmed by this brain study …

    That’s why spriritual leader, mathematician, scientist, business leader , nobel laureates ….blablabla are mostly man … But don’t forget … who raised and educated them ..??

    For some society (who called themselves a science based society) , this scientific hard fact about men and women differences is considered as a “bitter fact” ….. What an irony ! … But that’s the best thing the nature has arranged …
    How to argue this ???

    Then about women’s vote is not equal than man’s vote … :
    Don’t you realize that one-man-one-vote is a flawed principle ??
    Don’t you realize why Philipine’s Joseph-drinker-gambler-Estrada – was
    elected as president ??

    Is it fair to give Nelson Mandela one vote and Paris Hilton also one vote ?? How to argue this ??

    Eventhough men and women are mentally and physically different .. they are both complementary .. and before God both men and women are in equal position as human being which is judge by their righteousness …

    Still want to campaign western style women-men equality ???

    • TalkingEid

      Yes. 2 cheers for democracy (an excellent piece of writing by E. M. Forster, you would do well to read it) – not a perfect system, but by far the best we have created so far.

      • tahugejrot

        So you confirm that western style democracy is a flawed system ….!
        Then what would you do ?
        Do nothing ??

  • hijab

    some people may say that I am discouraging her to wear hijab but let I explain to those who think that I am discouraging her to wear hijab
    I am not discouraging her to wear hijab but this is the teaching of the prophet Muhammad (s.w.s) to love, be merciful, be kind, and do not force someone to do something one day Allah may open her heart to wear hijab and the second reason is If you see someone doing good and it look like 10% treat it like 50% good that will make the person love you and willing obey you but now lots of people lose their mind and ready to react in a negative way so don;t think I am discouraging rather this may help her

  • Voxclara

    ToTo hijab, appreciate your effort. But the fact remains that women are oppressed and treated as possession under Sharia laws in Islamic countries. I won’t even try to refute the “taqiyya” being perpetrated in the two youtube videos you posted. But I will prove my point by using Islamic sources:

    Hatred of Jews and Christians were taught from very early age:

    In the Quran, Jews are the offsprings of apes and pigs:

    Jews are the eternal enemy of Muslims:

    Why The hatred for Jews and Christians:

    Quran 5:60, Jews are apes and pigs:
    http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=5&verse=60

    Quran 5:82, Jews and Christians are enemies of Islam:
    http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=5&verse=82

    Quran 5:60, Allah cursed the Jews
    http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=5&verse=60

    Hadith: http://quotingislam.blogspot.com/2011/06/muhammad-says-that-one-day-very-trees.html

    Muhammad says that one day the very trees and stones will help Muslims to kill Jews
    He says it in both Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, Islam’s two most canonical hadith collections:

    Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791:
    Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar:
    I heard Allah’s Apostle [Muhammad]saying, “The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!’ ”
    Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
    Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar:
    Allah’s Apostle said, “You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, ‘O ‘Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.’ ”
    Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    Allah’s Apostle said, “The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”
    Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6981:

    Ibn ‘Umar reported Allah’s Messenger[Muhammad] (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me); kill him.

    • niquab

      I tried to replied to your comment but sorry I can’t post anymore comment to you because JG don’t seams to agreed with everything I wrote :(

  • TalkingEid

    Try consulting a dictionary. You seem to have confused the word ‘equal’ with ‘identical’.

  • TalkingEid

    They exist only in his misogynistic mind.

  • niquab

    Thankyou

  • niquab

    but who can judge what is in your head lol no wone can’t do that

    • TalkingEid

      well you seem to do it all the time.

  • TalkingEid

    managed to find where I said reject democracy yet? Or did they not teach you good manners in your kidergarden?

  • TalkingEid

    any evidence yet? No, thought not.

    • tahugejrot

      What I am asking is please show me any evidence that woman are equal with man in the IQ intelligence ….emotional intelligence … rearing intelligence …. aesthetic intelligence …. kinetic intelligence …. blablabla…..

  • niquab

    Thankyou

  • niquab

    hello Voxclara if you want to talk bad about Islam, and bring statement’s from the scholars of Islaam then bring these scholars Sheikh Muhammad Al-Mukhtar Ash-Shinqitee, Shaikh Muhaddis Al Albaani, Sheikh Salih Al-Fawzaan, Sheikh Uthaymeen,
    Sheikh Abdul- Azeez ibn Baz.

    These Scholars is from the most knowledgeable of our time!

  • Anonymous

    playing with GOD’S word must be BAND!

    • Rustynails

      Which God’s word? What gives you the right to choose?

  • Anonymous

    BEAUTIFUL is the WOMEN who observe HIJAB
    HANDSOME is the MAN lowers his GAZE

    • Good,Bad and Ugly

      Where is your self respect?
      Were you born with hijab?
      Why should man lower his gaze? No logic!

      • Anonymous

        I am respect because of Allah command and this vid explain!

        were u born with teeth?
        mae should lour his gaze because Allah command so!

  • justbac

    ha3x… but that is a least something BOTH genders do… see the difference?

  • Anonymous

    I ask the Christians some simple question and JG can’t put it up upto now I am wondering if the question is too hard

  • niquab

    Assalamu-alaikum
    My Dear sister,
    The time of the Mahdi is near and you know what the prophet Muhammad (s.w.s) says about the thing that will happen before the Mahdi come
    The people will be building as if they are raising one another and Men will imitate women and women will imitate men

    and I was searching for stories and I came across these books that talks about the thing that will happen before the Mahdi come,
    Source:
    http://salaf-stories.blogspot.com/

    Book 1
    Name: Black Flags from the East
    Link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/115588808/Black-Flags-From-the-East

    Book 2
    Name: Black Flags in Syria
    Link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/144137913/Black-Flags-From-Syria-Ebook

    Book 3
    Name: Black Flags from ARABIA
    Link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/165062410/Black-Flags-from-ARABIA

  • Anonymous

    alright back to the subject
    Who is more oppressed: Muslim or the western society women?

    Women finally realize feminism has failed

  • Unum Deum

    I’m sure many of you are waiting for news about chaotic distribution of Qurban meat to poor people…..

    Another good opportunity to bash muslims celebrating Idul Adha..

  • Voxclara

    There are many verses in the holy scriptures when Jesus was referred to as God or said he was God. But I shall just quote a few from the Gospel according to St John.

    John 1:1 – In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… 1:14 – And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

    John 5:17,18 – “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

    John 5:23 – that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

    John 8:24 – “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”

    John 8:58 – Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

    John 10:30-33 – Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

    John 14:6-7 – Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

    John 14:9-11 – Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?”

    John 20:28 – And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

  • Roland

    @Anonymous – who asked YOU any questions (as you claim in your last sentence)?

    You are the one asking them – and to top it of – those are the type of rather ridiculous ones found at various Christian hate sites (e.g. http://www.answering-christianity.com/questions.htm ) telling you, the reader, to ask those questions to a Christian.

    And hey, I just gave you access to a whole lot more of those kind of questions as you posted earlier. Isn’t that a great service?

    • Valkyrie1604

      Roland: It is obvious what ‘Anonymous’ is doing and I will not degrade myself going into further exchanges with this individual. It certainly sucks!

  • Valkyrie1604

    I am a Christian and I will tell you that no matter how lucid my answers are going to be, you will NOT be convinced.

    1: The opening phrase of the Ten Commandments.

    2: Mustava is correct but not completely. Although the Romans crucified

    Jesus, it was the Jews who incited the act.

    3: Jesus has NEVER taken the decision to rule the world.

    4: It’s the mystery of the Holy Trinity. Mystery in our Faith means any truth

    that is unknowable except by divine revelation

    5: God created men and gave him free will.

    6: You’re wrong! We pray whenever we need. Sundays have only been a

    traditional day for worship.

    7: You are certainly confused!!!

    I shall not pose any questions for you except to inform you that ALL of your questions and more can be revealed quite easily by referring to Christian sites in the Internet.

    I am not a Christian scholar by the way, and my response is to enlighten you from my personal convictions, as one.

    • Anonymous

      1) Yes the the first commandment is very clear the bible says
      “Thou shalt not have strange Gods before me. Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. (Exodus 20:3-4)” meaning that there is only one GOD NOT three!
      2) yes r these people more strong than Jesus?
      3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGpDusvtUJo
      4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoLvAbMP2lY ur faith is couropted beacuse u still didn’t explain the thrinity!
      5) bible says in Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertains unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD your God.”
      the Bible also says ” (I Pet. 3:4), and this will be reflected in the type of clothing she wears. Her apparel will be appropriate for the occasion and stylish if affordable, while remaining modest and proper. The heart of such a woman will be pleasing to God.”
      the Bible also says ” I Timothy 2:9: “In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel…”

      6) If u pray whenever u need then u r ungrateful to ur lord u must pray to thank him!

      • Valkyrie1604

        I will end this exchange because we are arguing about Holy beliefs and I for one DO NOT ENJOY such discussions.It will come to no end. Thus, I leave you to continue your faith.

        • Anonymous

          ok

  • Valkyrie1604

    Why can’t so many of you understand that the world is NOT persecuting Islam? All other Faiths wish to live alongside each other but truly, I cannot say this for some of you who have decided to take things their way and dominate.

    Are you so blind or deaf that you DO NOT see or hear what’s taking place right now?

    Yes, Islamic extremism has committed crimes against humanity. Are you going to deny this fact? You know, I can write a very lengthy post here to try convince people like yourself but it’s going to be a fruitless effort. Why? You are one of those who refuse to see and understand the wrongs of what your Faith has become for some.

    Can we all live with each other in Peace and Love?

    • niquab

      Yes we all can live in peace and love Allah says in the Quraan
      “And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.”

      (surah At-Tawbah verse 6)

      • Valkyrie1604

        It is also mentioned in the Gospels of Luke and Matthew.

        Luke: 6: 27 -46
        Matthew: 5: 44

        Are you aware that the Holy Bible was recorded long, long before the Koran?

      • DD

        Yes we all can live in peace and love Allah says in the Quraan

        Why are muslims all over the world failing to do just that?

  • Anonymous

    1)Yehi Ask u to look at the sun for just five min can u look at it so what about God? in heaven men and women will be 100 more strong than the men/ women of this world and only those who go to heaven will see God
    2) I replied to Valkyrie1604 about that same issue!
    3) So if men run the world then who send down water from the sky and more ok in the Quraan Allah says in many places that He will reward the one who is patience with a great reward in the next world!
    4) Explain how?
    5) I replied to Valkyrie1604 about that issue

    6) Maybe in Indonesia they r more Christians than muslim

  • niquab

    I don’t understand but I wasn’t talking to u I am talking to Unum Deum y u comment on this?

    • DD

      because this is an open forum – he/she is allowed
      However let me explain. you said you were searching for stories and he says ‘you found god’ which by lack of evidence is a fictional work, a story if you will.
      Ok now?

  • Voxclara

    Hi Niquab, you said I ‘talk bad about Islam’ but you didn’t explain why. Anyway here is a list of essentially najis things according to Islamic laws (sharia) from Al Islam.
    [[[ 84. * The following ten things are essentially najis

    Urine, Faeces, Semen, Dead body, Blood, Dog, Pig, Kafir, Alcoholic liquors,The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat. ]]]

    Source: http://www.al-islam.org/laws/najisthings.html

    Under the explanation of Kafir, this is what Islamic laws says from Al Islam:
    [[[ Kafir
    107. * An infidel i.e. a person who does not believe in Allah and His Oneness, is najis. Similarly, Ghulat who believe in any of the holy twelve Imams as God, or that they are incarnations of God, and Khawarij and Nawasib who express enmity towards th e holy Imams, are also najis. And similar is the case of those who deny Prophethood, or any of the necessary laws of Islam, like, namaz and fasting, which are believed by the Muslims as a part of Islam, and which they also know as such.

    As regards the people of the Book (i.e. the Jews and the Christians) who do not accept the Prophethood of Prophet Muhammad bin Abdullah (Peace be upon him and his progeny), they are commonly considered najis, but it is not improbable that they are Pak. However, it is better to avoid them.

    108. The entire body of a Kafir, including his hair and nails, and all liquid substances of his body, are najis. ]]]

    As you can see, a Kafir (non Muslim) such as myself is as najis as urine and faeces according to sharia, the laws of your religion. This is not ‘talk bad about Islam’ but merely presenting facts from one of the many reliable and academic sources of your religion such as Al Islam. I do not make them up, they are taken directly from Islamic sources.

    • niquab

      Yes from non-Muslim they r najis in regard to not worshipping one God that what they r najis for but regardless of that we must not be near to them but still being kind and calm to them and this is from the teachings of our beloved prophet Muhammad (s.w.s)

  • Anonymous
  • DD

    Of course only last month King Abdullah also voiced his support (and 13 billion dollars) for the Egyptian Military’s crackdown against Islamic terrorism, namely the Muslim Brotherhood…

    Oh and let’s not forget Wikileaks

    QUOTE 1 – The Saudi government, was reluctant to cut off money being sent to the Taliban in Afghanistan and Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) in Pakistan.

    “While the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) takes seriously the threat of terrorism within Saudi Arabia, it has been an ongoing challenge to persuade Saudi officials to treat terrorist financing emanating from Saudi Arabia as a strategic priority,”

    QUOTE 2 – “In contrast to its increasingly aggressive efforts to disrupt al Qaeda’s access to funding from Saudi sources, Riyadh has taken only limited action to disrupt fundraising for the UN 1267-listed Taliban and LeT-groups that are also aligned with al Qaeda and focused on undermining stability in Afghanistan and Pakistan.”

    “More needs to be done since Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al Qaeda, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups,”

    QUOTE 3 – “Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide, including in the Philippines, former Soviet Bloc, Indonesia and Malaysia” added the document signed by Clinton.

    Does that seem somewhat duplicitous to you? and thanks Addullah for funding murder in our nation in the name of your god

    • niquab

      who is George Bush? if u check the history of Islaam u will find difference our beloved prophet Muhammad (s.w.s) says that they will be a lot of confusion just before the Mahdi come even among the Muslims and Allah will send a Mahdi to rule the world no one will be poor during the caliph of the Mahdi and no one will reject Islaam during the time of the Mahdi because of the Justice that will spread among the people so yes they r lot’s of confusion right now!

      • DD

        really there is no hope really none at all, which is why I generally avoid engaging religious fruit bats of any flavour
        I hope your mahdi hurrys along because I’m pretty sick of seeing muslims killing others (often other muslims) for a belief that has zero actual evidence of the main protagonists existence
        BTW I’ve seen Islamic justice and if you looked at the video someone posted so would you

        • niuab

          I have ask you a simple question who is George Bush? did you answer my question? NO
          about the Mahdi
          I have heard that he is alive but when the Mahdi will become the Mahdi is when he reach 40 years so the longest you might have to wait is 40 years and the Mahdi will be name Muhammad ibn Abdullah just as our prophet name is Muhammad ibn Abdullah (s.w.s)

        • TalkingEid

          I’m with you – I think I will leave the 2 mass debaters to resolve it.

  • Voxclara

    Niqua, this is the reality in Saudi Arabia:

    The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia has said that all churches in the Arabian Peninsula must be destroyed. The statement prompted anger and dismay from Christians throughout the Middle East.

    Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah made the controversial statement in a response to a question from a Kuwaiti NGO delegation. A Kuwaiti parliamentarian had called for a ban on the construction of new churches in February, but so far the initiative has not been passed into law. The NGO, called the Society of the Revival of Islamic Heritage, asked the Sheikh to clarify what Islamic law says on the matter.

    The Grand Mufti, who is the highest official of religious law in Saudi Arabia, as well as the head of the Supreme Council of Islamic Scholars, cited the Prophet Mohammed, who said the Arabian Peninsula is to exist under only one religion.

    The Sheikh went on to conclude that it was therefore necessary for Kuwait, being a part of the Arabian Peninsula, to destroy all churches on its territory.

    In February, Kuwaiti MP Osama al-Munawar announced on Twitter that he was planning to submit legislation that would remove all churches in the country. However, he later clarified that existing churches should remain, while the construction of new non-Islamic places of worship would be banned.

    Read more: http://www.themuslimtimes.org/2012/03/countries/saudi-arabia/destroy-all-churches-in-the-arabian-peninsula-saudi-grand-mufti-not-islam#ixzz2hypMDEd4

  • DD

    you had to sign up because the content is so violent and disgustingly nasty that it requires age verification
    Make an account and see what is happening

  • DD

    Your argument is invalid as soon as said human screams ‘allah akbar’ or similar as he does the act -

    • Anonymous

      check the Quraan and Hadith to know the truth Not what people do!

      • TalkingEid

        Matthew 7:16

  • TalkingEid

    possibly because they are nonsense?

  • TalkingEid

    you have a lot to say – but it’s just noise, no substance.

  • TalkingEid

    well since the ‘proof’ exists only in your head – thanks but no thanks. Your offer to shovel things down someones throat calls up a particularly unpleasant image of Muslim misogyny at work.

  • TalkingEid

    nor me – come on – simple question for a simple mind to give a simple answer – why does Islam permit polygamy but not polyandry?

  • TalkingEid

    Because it doesn’t. End of.

  • globo

    what are evidences that womwn are not equal to men and what are evidences women are equal to men?

  • niquab

    @Voxclara
    what religion you are following, according to your religion does it not say if you follow another religion then you will go to hell and don’t go close to those people who is not in your religion because you maybe misguided eh? well what I will do now all the religion say the same thing about that? is this not true if this is not true then I don’t know.
    I either must submit to your religion or I will go to hell?

    • Voxclara

      Hi Niqua, thanks for the reply, but I don’t quite understand your point. I am a Christian, and my faith doesn’t teach me that those who are different in faith are as najis as faeces, urine, dogs, pigs, dead body, sweat, blood etc. or that I must keep away from them. On the contrary I was taught to accept and welcome people of other faiths. My faith forbids me from discriminating against them. I have many friends of various faiths, and some of them become like family to me. But you said this is forbidden in your faith? You must not accept and must stay away from non Muslims because we are najis? Does this mean you have no freedom, and practise intolerance and discrimination? Please explain.

      • niquab

        Hi Voxclara,

        as far as I know is that if you are a Christian (in the Christians belief) is if you are a Christian then you must believe that Jesus is the son of God and if you don’t believe that you will go to hell, and Islam says if you don’t believe that their is only one God then you will go to hell and only those who Allah have mercy on them will go to paradise also proof?
        “The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: “There were two men who were living as brothers; one of them was sinful, while the other stove very much to perform his devotion to Allah. The striver (after good) would continuously see the other in sin, and so he would continuously advise him to leave it. The sinner retorted: ‘Leave me, by my Lord- are you sent as a watcher over me?’ worshipper said: ‘By Allah, Allah will not forgive you, or (he said) Allah will not make you enter Jannah. After their souls were taken, they were brought together before Allah, so He said to the striver: ‘Did you have knowledge of Me, or are you able to do what is in My Hand?’ Allah said to the sinner ‘Go to Jannah by my Mercy and said to the other “Take him to the fire (of Jahannam)’. ”
        [Abu Dawood and Ahmad]

        bye bye

  • devine

    hahaha… you are really a true believer… no matter what fairy tale… lets see in 40 years if we are still around…

    • niquab

      do you believe that Jesus will return we Muslim believe the same and that the Mahdi will come just before Jesus but we will wait and see if Jesus will return!

  • niquab

    God says in Quran:-

    He is the ORIGINATOR OF the HEAVENS and the earth. How can He have CHILDREN when He has no WIFE? He created all things and He is the All-Knower OF everything .
    ( سورة الأنعام , Al-Anaam, Chapter #6, Verse #101)

    THEY say: “ALLAH HAS begotten a SON (children).” Glory is to Him! He is RICH(Free of all needs). His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. No warrant you have for this. Do you say against ALLAH what you KNOW NOT.
    ( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #68)
    Source(s):
    AL QURAN

    Jesus Christ (pbuh): in the Bible
    (i) “My Father is greater than I.”
    [The Bible, John 14:28]

    (ii) “My Father is greater than all.”
    [The Bible, John 10:29]

    (iii) “…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God….”
    [The Bible, Mathew 12:28]

    (iv) “…I with the finger of God cast out devils….”
    [The Bible, Luke 11:20]

    (v) “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”
    [The Bible, John 5:30]

    BIBLE

  • Voxclara

    Thanks Niquab for your replies. But I don’t quite understand why you posted the various verses from the Holy Bible, which were revealed centuries before the Quran. It is a fact that the understanding of God of the Bible is not the same as the understanding of Allah of the Quran. But it doesn’t mean one is wrong and the other is right. Each has its own belief and should be respected including tolerance, and acceptance of those who embrace different faiths from ours. That is what was taught to me in my faith. Which brings me back to my question to you, the fact that your faith teaches that the kafirs are as najis as faeces, urine, dead body etc. and you should keep away from us. Does this mean you have no freedom and are taught to practise intolerance and discriminations? Would appreciate your explanation.

    Two links using Islamic scriptures to refute the usual and tired claims which you posted. First take a look at this video on YouTube where one Islamic scholar inadvertently affirmed the concept of the Holy Trinity: http://youtu.be/jSz6jlWbpDI
    Then read the two links provided below:

    1.The Quran and the Holy Trinity, Islam’s Mistaken Views of Basic Christian Doctrines, Here: http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/quran_trinity.htm

    2. Qur’an Contradiction, Is Jesus God or Not? Here: http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/jesus_creator.htm

  • TalkingEid

    Frankly your displays of erudition are less interesting than watching paint dry. I leave copy/paste jobs from the Quaran / Bible / Torah / Buddhavacana and Uncle Tom Cobbly and All to you and Niqab, so you can carry on impressing yourselves with your rorschach texts.

  • TalkingEid

    Intention to inflame? You mean a stream of continuous anti-Muslim bile? Oh no wait……
    Well it’s great to see your reasonable, rational postings, referring to trolls, inflaming, etc. I hope one day I can aspire to such wisdom and kind words.
    I guess you missed the part about ‘offering the other cheek’?

    • Voxclara

      My anti Muslim bile? Where ? Prove your charge if you can. I repeat you contribute nothing except with the sole intention to infame, you are a troll! The proof are just above. You resort to insult the only way you know. You are a sad sad pompous delinquent with penchant for verbosity… Very sad.

      • TalkingEid

        Oops – my bad. I didn’t realise that God had appointed you to be the judge of what is my heart and mind. Have you also, in your newly found role, deleted that part about loving your enemies?

  • niquab

    @voxclara:disqus,
    Thanks for your replies too,
    NOTE:Something mark “Five Common Misconceptions about Christianity” I do NOT write that it only can be a Christian who wrote that if you check it out, I AM A MUSLIM! My Internet was off so that’s why I take soo long to reply.
    Regarding Monotheism we Muslim believe that it exist since the time of Adam (a.s) and that the Prophet Muhammad (s.w.s) was the last prophet of God and NOT the first so the Quraan is obviously the last book… but note the Torah and the Bible was only send to the Children of Israel these people are also known as the people of the book (the Jews and Christians)
    Can a Muslim be friend with a non-Muslim
    Yes if he follow these condition!
    1) That his friend should not muck Islaam or anything about it
    2) That his friend should not be drinking Rum or smoke this may cause him to adopt a bad habit and I want you to know Voxclara that if a Muslim drinks rum then his prayer is not accepted for 40 days
    3) that the Muslim bro should not muck at his religion too (but he can advise him to enter Islaam)
    the 2 links is block and I can’t get any info from it thank you tho
    by the way I want you to check these youtube vid

    1)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFVn8BmHLCc
    2)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ekIMXhEYh8
    3)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX5VGr17240

    • TalkingEid

      So wonderful to see 2 experts on each others religions make a mockery of of both. Could you and Voxclara just exchange emails and stop boring the rest of us to death?

      • Roland

        Two thumbs up! (And my two big toes went up too!). That entire thread is a screamer (I think it is actually the longest thread in the history of the internet – kept alive solely by ‘Niquab’ and ‘Voxclara’ for the last two months or so…..but amazingly (I started to click to the “Load more comments” button – at least ten times but then I gave up) it started at least 6 months ago with some really weird contributions – the article itself is more than one year old – so before the new style JG started and all old comments were deleted…
        I mean there must be in the meantime hundreds of wonderful links to wonderful sites (including of course YouTube) explaining all those wonderful things about wonderful bearded and not-bearded people contained in there….

    • Voxclara

      Hi Niquab,
      Sorry that you can’t access the two links I provided, they contain scholarly articles which refute the misconceptions you cited using only Islamic scriptures. If you read my reply, I never suggested you wrote the “5 common misconceptions about Christianity”. I used the word “posted” not “wrote” big difference in meaning. Neither did I ever imply that you are a Christian. For a true Christian knows his/her faith and would never write nor posted such gibberish. The fact that you are Muslim is obvious from the start. So I don’t quite understand why you feel insulted in anyway. Unless you think being thought as one of the people of the book is in itself a great insult to a Muslim? If someone mistakenly think I am a Muslim due to my knowledge on Islam, I won’t be offended at all.

      However you haven’t answered my question instead you have introduced several issues. You said you could be friend with a kafir under certain conditions? But doesn’t that go against the “najis” ruling of the Quran? You also said this potential kafir friend shouldn’t drink rum or smoke. So the potential kafir friend could drink any other alcoholic beverages except rum? Whiskey brandy, wine, beer etc are acceptable? Almost everyone I know smoke kretek yet they are Muslim. Have they committed sin? I also find it puzzling that you find it necessary to impose certain conditions to kafir before they can be your friends. Isn’t that another example of intolerance of others diversities? You use the word “muck” do you mean mock?

      Dear Niquab, Could you please answer the question on najis I asked a while ago? Otherwise we just go around in circle here.. And a very Happy Deepavali (Divali) to all Hindus who happens to read this section.

      • niquab

        Ok I will reply,

        as I go to post the comment I realized that I didn’t reply you anything on najis I will speak as far as my knowledge go Inshallah

        Dogs: Dogs are known to be haram to eat in Islaam also if a dog eat in a plate then that plate should be washed 7 times with Mud (I don’t think that this ruling is apply to a non-Muslim too)

        Pigs: Pigs as far as I know is that it is haram to eat any further!

        faeces, urine, dead body, blood etc: Is known to be najis like a woman who have her menses she can’t pray nor fast nor hold the actual Musshaf (Quraan) it is the same ruling that a man can’t pray if he have these thing on his cloth he must wash it off or when it is dry on his cloth like something that can’t remove or so then he can go and pray it apply to all of the above (Pigs, Dogs, faeces, urine, dead body, blood )

        Non-Muslim: we can Invite a non-Muslim to a wedding and we can talk to them and a non-Muslim I don’t think that they gone beyond dogs and pigs i think that dogs and pigs is a more lower state than a non-MUslim But faeces, urine, dead body, blood etc is like the stage of a non-Muslim too Just As it is in a woman during her period

        any alcohol is najis but I write rum instead then that is a mistake and yes I also made a mistake on the word mock but my spelling is not that good too thank you to bring back these 2 matters and I didn’t write about “Five Common Misconceptions about Christianity” thank you

        bye bye

        • jezabel

          ………..and I didn’t write about “Five Common Misconceptions about Christianity” thank you……..

          Its that imaginary friend again

        • Roland

          How “subtle” you are expressing your distaste for Non-Muslims “…I don’t think that they gone beyond dogs and pigs i think that dogs and pigs is a more lower state than a non-Muslim …”

          Do you really see other humans by their affiliation to religion first and then categorize them as either good humans or “najis”? What happened with your life?

          Anyway, here’s a list compiled by Grand Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Husayni Sistani who clearly spells what is unclean:

          1) Urine

          2) Faeces

          3) Semen (I guess this is what you wanted to express, but didn’t dare to when you wrote “…a man can’t pray if he have these thing on his cloth he must wash it off or when it is dry on his cloth like something that can’t remove…”. Is it?)

          4)Dead Body

          5) Blood

          6) Dog

          7) Pig

          8) Kafir (here we go – this obviously well-versed man in regards of Islamic rules seems to go contrary to your “I think…” statement. He even goes so far to call them the “vilest of creatures”)

          9) Alcoholic liquors

          10) the sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat (=unclean “things”)

          In addition Sistani added that the entire body of a “Kafir”, including his hair and nails and all liquid substances of this body are najis.

          Now, this Grand Ayatollah is supposedly a moderate reformer….

          (BTW, I freely borrowed from Robert Spencer)

  • Good,Bad and Ugly

    By definition:
    To be ignorant is to not have the data or the facts which could lead you to the truth, ie incomprehension, unawareness, unconsciousness, inexperience, innocence;
    unfamiliarity with, lack of enlightenment about, lack of knowledge about, lack of information about.
    However, when one has the knowledge available ie provable facts, undeniable evidence, irrefutable data, but if they choose to deny, to refute or to simply ignore the science, which was not available even 100 years ago, then that person(s) enters the realm of stupidity.
    It has been a boring displeasure listening to the ‘hearsay’ evidence and repetitive rhetorical tripe on this issue.

  • niquab

    who are you talking to, to the woman who said that she does not wear hijab because of this and that or me?

  • Roland

    Ahhhh, a Muslim claiming to be a Christianity expert!

  • jezabel

    Dont say your a muslim when you refuse to except a dacree or a matter from our creator or prophet, —– Interesting, however

    Then that requires evidence of a creator otherwise what you believe in is just superstition and indeed all who call themselves XYZ are merely delusional or desperate or weak of thought.
    However there is no evidence, indeed as this is the case the whole pretence is a charade for man man oppression and control

  • niquab

    Voxclara

    Lets end with this now because I see that the people are getting fed up with us, I can continue but the people are getting fed up maybe JG too are getting fed up so lets stop
    LOL I AM NOT FED-UP :)
    Last time I am saying bye bye
    Thank You

  • niquab

    Yes you didn’t talk about the companion of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (s.w.s) people make mistake but Islam don’t check this link out
    http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/the-khilafah/foreign-policy/2764-the-islamic-view-on-slaves-and-slavery

    and also this you tube link

  • Anonymous

    who win the debate Niquab/Voxclara? ……Just want to know!

    • niquab

      Assalamu-Alaikum
      Calm down now…..:)
      But let me make it clear to Voxclara that if he want to know who s/he chatting with….then it is a verry young teanager ie.14, so if I look stupid then that’s ok , I think that Voxclara is much bigger than that!

      • Anonymous

        I know that I was a little rude to this sister and I admit that I was wrong and on the Christian I was a little rude too what Umm and you says was correct so I apologies for my mistake

        • niquab

          (:Peace:) it’s ok I forgave you and I want you to forgave me for my rudeness (:Peace:)

  • devine

    What a narrow, shallow world you are living in… wonder who thought you…?
    I am always suspicious of people who think they know the “truth”…

  • Brechin

    985 comments on this matter, whilst Rome burns. Pathetic religious zombies.

  • Bystander

    the author of http://gmiah.hubpages.com/hub/The-Sun-Will-Rise-From-The-West-On-Earth

    seems a bit confused. Retrograde motion is a visual effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrograde_motion- Mars and other planets “seem” to move “backwards” in the sky because the Earth moves faster in it’s orbit The Earth catches up and passes them. The Visual effect: they “appear” to move in the opposite direction for a few days. But that’s all that’s happening – it’s not related to the rotation of Earth or Mars, i.e, the Sun won’t rise in the west.

  • Bystander

    In addition the effect of Retrograde Motion was first explained by:

    Claudius Ptolemy AD 90 – c. AD 168. i.e. 500 BEFORE Muhammad was even born. And Ptolemy not even discovered Retrograde Motion. He was able to explain it. But the phenomenon of RM was already know for thousands of years.

  • Jakarta_Globe

    @voxclara:disqus I would be happy to clarify. The sentences above were edited out because they were in violation of our comments policy.

    From the comments policy: “3. Language that is likely to deeply offend or insult another person such as personal attacks, insults, threats and name-calling”

    And while we’re on the subject, the near-constant posts below attacking Islam while championing Christianity are borderline “4. Trolling, flaming and spamming.” This concerns both you and @5cce3f7a320fc4fc3ce9c38ff564d02e:disqus.

    This argument has gone on for months. @5cce3f7a320fc4fc3ce9c38ff564d02e:disqus attempted to bow out 24 days ago. Can we just move on? More interesting things are happening in the country than a centuries-old debate over whose religion is the best.

    Thanks,

    Web Ed

    • Voxclara

      WebEd, I am still waiting for you to substantiate your accusations, if you can’t then I expect that you publish an apology for your unfounded accusation!

      • Jakarta_Globe

        Voxclara You posted probably 15% of the comments in this thread. One post was edited (Maybe a few more, I don’t know, this is a big desk. We don’t inform each other every time we edit a comment). We’re not going to search through all of them. In our opinion calling someone stupid (which you did) is a violation. As is trolling half of the articles that mention Islam with your interpretations of Islamic texts.

        Just take the above as a sign to calm down and move on to more fruitful topics of discussion. It looks like plenty of people are tired of this. Thanks.

  • mauriceg

    Niquab, your premise only works if you are a Muslim. If you are of another faith, you are not forced to accept the Muslim view of the world, which incidentally isabout 1300 or so years out of date, and thousands of kilometres away in ‘culture’. I am not a Christian or Muslim but what you learned about Christianity is untrue. If you got out more and talked to real people outside your apparently narrow confines, your eyes would be opened. Seriously. I am not pushing anyone’s faith at you. But the world is a huge place, and there is much more to learn about it, by yourself, in your own time from books and online, than you can imagine. Come back in a few years time, and tell us then if i lie to you.

  • Waris

    Such ridiculous comments by people who decide to use questionable hadiths or say asinine adages as “I want you to know that you make satan HAPPY and your lord who gave you so many things SAD.”

    Here is the question that you should ask yourself: Can I be a good Muslim without hijab? If the answer is yes, than don’t worry about what others tell you or people who resort to Neanderthal tactics by displacing you to hell if you don’t wear it. There is no logic behind such rationale. Do you actually think Allah (swt) gets emotional? Do you think he is getting “sad” when you are not wearing a garment over your head? There are millions of Muslim women who do unbelievable charitable and generous things beyond imagination and they don’t wear hijab. To think that Allah would discard such great work because a woman does not wear hijab is an insult to Allah.

  • Børge Bahr Naseer Blåtind

    Greetings

    As you may know there are those muslims refuting all the Hadith, So if you want arguments against wearing Hijab and all rituals, read from books I had collected see last.
    So there are interpretations different than your “average” muslims,

    Anyway most absurdities in Islam comes from Hadith and the understanding of such
    in the Quran

    Have a blessed day. Børge

    Below is an alternative understanding of some verses, just so you may want to read.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Heersaleti/

    Maniza Mirza

    ” ZULQARNAIN OF THE TIME” is the planner/conjoiner to deal with two different societies of opposite states (dawn and dusk).
    A person having power,sources and control IE strong ruling authority refer to verse 18/84 if face/deals in similar situations ( given below), could be called ZULQARNAIN
    :- His dealing with the dusk-nation (defeated group of people) has been described in verses 18/-86-88.
    :-His dealing with the people of the dawn (civilized and developing group of the society), has been taken understood (given no details) in verses18/90-91
    :- His dealing with the third type of complexed societity having two different types of communities [living nearby in clash with each other] One is highly civilized and other is barbarian in his character (CALLED YAJOOJ MAJOOJ), has been described.

    Børge Bahr Naseer Blåtind

    Free English book refuting Hadith and understand the Quran for download in PDF format:
    http://www.box.net/shared/5tgzvctcf5

    • logic monotheist gog magog

      ‘most absurdities in Islam comes from Hadith’
      thanks for sayin that, agree with you
      many moslem read the quran only as mantra and nothing, they are even reluctant to open the translation, some good translation are available out there ie: monotheist translation, reformist translation etc.

  • mauriceg

    Nobody outside a building for prayer needs to hear regurgitated holy words taken out of context, for the purposes of self- and religious-aggrandizement, in these posts. That means any religion. So spare us the Islamic propagandizing. You may find learning a baffling experience, so I’ll stop giving you scientific explanations that contradict your primitive superstitions.

    • gogmagog

      when did you give me scientific explanations mr.wise and clever? tell me something here what you think will contradict my primitive(and evolutive) brain.
      cheers
      gog magog
      chapter17: you will reach the zenith of arrogance…..but when the promise of the second time comes…..

  • gog magog

    man, i work with waves and em field half of my life time and now i became an antiscience bcs of few words from quran! hahaha
    Let us build a methodology on noachian flood, i want to know from your side what you will do to prove that. Youll send sedimentologist or making a time machine able to travel backward(pls note travel backwrd in time is impossible)?
    Now lets think the flood is limited to the dead sea area and noah ark is only a small ark caryin few people with animals.
    i have faith to quran and god, and i didnt force you to believe that. enjoy your retiring time man!

  • Bystander

    Quote: ok but I am a bit of confused to what your trying to say can u explain in more details thankyou EndQuote

    Well what I was trying to say is:

    1.) The description of “sun will be Rising from the west” on http://gmiah.hubpages.com/hub/ has nothing to do with science although http://gmiah.hubpages.com/hub/ seems to try to make it scientific. From your previous comment: Quote “and if you don’t believe that the sun will be Rising from the west, then check out this link
    http://gmiah.hubpages.com/hub/…” End Quote, you seemed to believe what http://gmiah.hubpages.com/hub/ is telling ist the Truth.

    2.) It was puzzling to me why you would mention the Retrograde Motion. I assumed that you wanted to hint to a future state of your earth rotation which you seem to think was being mentioned in the quran (I guess to show that the quran is wonderful) The “mentioning” of the Retrograde Motion in the quran has several flows:
    a.) The Sun will NEVER rise form the west. (This is why i posted the link to the explanation to Retrograde Motion before)
    b.) Since you seem take this rising of the sun in the west as true or at least state that this Retrograde Motion was mentioned in the quran, I just wanted to add some additional information that this knowledge was know already hundred (maybe even thousand years) before the quran war revealed. Which either means that the author of the quran copied form the romans (which makes this mentioning of Retrograde Motion not so wonderous), or that God took pity on the the ancient arabs since they were the only ones not knowing of that phenomenon so he had to reveal it to them.

  • mimi

    Just like our Prophet Muhamad SAW. Allah has ensured him going to the paradise in eternity. but why Muhammad always pray more than usual? his answer is about Grateful to Allah. So, why we are not feeling Grateful to Allah by this case? :-)

  • Anonymous

    Don’t make yourself a fool he said “JUST LIKE OUR PROPHET MUHAMMAD (SWS). ALLAH HAS ALREADY TOLD HIM (SWS) THAT HE (SWS) IS ALREDDY GOING TO PRADISE SO WHY DID THE PROPHET PRAY MORE, IT IS BEACAUSE HE (SWS) WANT TO SHOW HIS (SWS) GRATFULLNES TO ALLAH ” and the question is simpel too the question is “SO WHY DON’T WE BE GRATFUL TO ALLAH AS THE PROPHET (SWS) Thankyou

    • Bystander

      Because we use our brains? Btw on your keyboard there is a key where CAPS LOCK is written. maybe you should deactivate it.

      • Maryam

        The prophet used his Brian.

        • bystander

          I am not sure what you try to say what that comment :The prophet used his Brian.

          I can just assume that you mean, He (the prophet) used his brain and came to the conclusion that he better be thankful to Allah. The thing is: Using their brain, various humen can come to different conclusion. So if he (the prophet) comes to the conclusion to be thankful to his god, doenst mean that everyone else comes to the same conclusion. e.g. Using my brain, after reading the quran and bible, I came to the conclusion that the god, as described in the “holy” scriptures, is non-existent. And if he were true, I am not sure if i would like to submit to him.

  • submitter

    God, Angels, sins and rewards can’t be seen. That is the reason why the ordains of God are neglected and at some times enacted.

    Just like when cops are visible, we try our best to not break the regulations. But as cops are no longer in surrounding distance. We tend to lax our selves from regulations.

  • gog magog

    ‘most absurdities in Islam comes from Hadith and their priest’
    many moslem read the quran only as mantra and nothing, they are even reluctant to open the translation, some good translation are available out there ie: monotheist translation, reformist translation etc.

  • Lina Yusof

    I wonder why the males don’t cover their heads. If the women have to wear the hijab and cover their body to protect themselves from sexual harassment then perhaps males should do the same too since I do find some males uncovered hair sexually attractive. Plus some of them like to show their six packs to the public. Won’t that make the muslim men sinners for causing the women to feel sexually attractive to them?. Note the sarcasm. By the way do you know that most of the major religions come from the arab region. What is the geographic situation there? Hmmm. Let see hot, dusty, cold at night with the frequent sand storms. Hello… even men over there have to cover themselves.more so women since we women like to keep long hair. It adds to our beauty. do you know how hard it is to get rid of dust and sand from your hair?Besides by covering the hair and body helps to protect the women and men from dehydration. don’t you know?

    • zeeshan khan

      you said exactly good

  • Bystander

    Quote:

    They have to wear kufi as a sign of religiousness. Trust me, it makes harder for the men to control themselves, than it is for a woman. Their thinking is much different from ours.

    End Quote.

    Why should we trust you? Are you some kind of expert? Anyhow. to substitute you here a little bit: Research shows that men have as much self control as women. They dont think as different as women. The difference is on biological level. Men have a stronger sex drive. And for this it doenst matter if the woman is convered up or not. A beautiful (or even an average looking) person who is dressed in a “modest” fashion can be (or in general is) more appealing than an a hideous naked one.

    Quote:

    We are all here as a test from Allah, this whole Dunya is a test. We are obliged to different things. Just follow what is says in the Quran and follow what the prophet Muhammad (saw) says.

    end quote

    Why do we need to be tested? Isn´t Allah supposed to be all knowing? You say we are obliged to different things. So what you are saying is: Allah made us different, and then he send us the quran to align us again? Is that what you are saying?

    Quote:
    Stay close to the Deen to be successful in this life and the hereafter.
    end quote

    Success by staying close to the Deen? IF you ever read news or just look beyond your veil, you will see that living by the Deen doenst guarant success in live. You dont believe me? Just spend one day in the slums of Jakarta or in any hospital, and ask the people there how their Deen has been working out for them.

    Quote:
    I never said to not question what Islam says, but Allah knows best. I’m a type of person who would keep to the safe side of things. About the Deen, but I do believe that some women (and men, one time there was a bank robbery in America and men were disguised in the full hijab.) use this blessing from Allah the wrong way.

    end quote

    So what you say is: You can question the quran, but against your judgement follow the quran anyway? … So why question it in the first place?

    Quote:
    Inshallah, Allah makes it easier for us, ameen

    end quote.

    So Allah makes it easy if you follow the Deen? Again: look beyond your veil, lets say Syria or Egypt for example. If you really think that the muslims there have it easy, then you are either ignorant or cynical.

  • Bystander

    Quote:
    If u don’t trust her then u don’t need to tell everyone or ask why just keep it to yourself BTW the place where i live in i witness men whom is well mannered with regard to women whenever a women confront them the will lower their gaze out of respect! and women are also dress with modest actually i live in an islamic society, and a women don’t wear hijab because of men they wear hijab out of obedient to their creator!
    End Quote

    You are missing the point of the comment. Maryam stated that the Hijab would help men to control their lust. I stated that is not that way.When YOU on the other hand state:

    ” …BTW the place where i live in i witness men whom is well mannered with regard to women whenever a women confront them the will lower their gaze out of respect!….”

    You are just prooving my point that it men are very well able to control themselves without the need of a hijab.

    Quote:
    We are all tested because Allah want to see how strong or if we are going to be obedient to him and HE will reward us with Jannah if we are good and punish who misbehave though he is all knowing. Don’t we have the ability to do what we want to chose which Religion we want to obey whom want?
    End quote

    Again you are either missing the point or not understanding my argument: Allah is supposed to be all knowing, right?
    But still Allah want to see how strong or if we are going to be obedient to him, although he is supposed to know this…..

    Quote:
    I want u to know that Allah reward the patient and forgave a Moumin when he is sick. On the day of resurrection the people will wish that their skins to be cut up into pieces because of the tremendous reward of the patience Subhannallah!
    end quote.

    So what you are basically saying is: God made us, want to test us by making us sick. Wants to see if, despite “torturing” us with sickness, we will stay obedient. And if we do he rewards us with ..something.
    Again you dont seem to understand the concept of all knowing. When God is all knowing, being able to see the future etc. Shouldnt he know?

    Quote
    I have been reading miracles that happened in syria and I was amaze what was written in it (the book) Subhanallah and I would like to offer it to u and u will again understand how Alllah is with the patience link below
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/2048

    end quote.

    Again: Allah allowed the war in the first place. Why is it necessary to torture those people in the first place?

  • Curious Canadian

    As a christian who knows very little of Islam this all seems very strange to me. But the more I think about it, the more I realise it’s not that strange. We both have our fair share of odd seemingly pointless rules as well :P

    But question it says your hair can’t look like the unbelieving woman. Er…why? just because I wear say…jeans doesn’t mean I’m like a serial killer who also wears jeans. And I see plenty of woman who cover their heads and are not Muslim in the slightest…so…what about them? In the end you will always look like some unbelieving woman somewhere in the world.

    Shouldn’t being a good muslim, like being a good christian be based on how you treat others? feeding the poor, housing the homeless, doing good ect. why get hung up on this thing that to me seems so small, compared to the great suffering of so many of Gods children that go unmet.

    Anyone willing to enlighten me?

  • Servant of Allah

    Hizab from Quranic perspective it’s totally different from contemporary understanding. Hizab is not a dress code it’s about your five desires, how to control, act and excute youself in this world, it’s not just about lowering your gaze but lowering your eating, lowering your hearing, lowering your smelling and lowering your touching. Allah emphasis on gaze is because it is prominent desire and Allah knows that people of understanding will understand.

  • Allahs servant

    There is no such thing as do not understand, it’s your laziness and irresponsible that makes you ignorance. Allah created you with five senses and Allah want you to input knowledge’s so that you may find the truth. knowledge is for everyone either you take it or leave it, it’s your choice. Allah has created us with components and we have to make use of it, if you just sit down and expect Allah to do every thing than you have no purpose. I hope this will enlighten you.