Why Some Muslim Women Don’t Wear Hijab

By webadmin on 11:16 am August 15, 2012.
Category Archive

Dian Kuswandini

First of all, I’m a believer: I’m a practicing Muslim. Second, I don’t wear hijab. And from here my story starts.
 
One day, a male friend tagged me on a note in Facebook; it’s about a conversation between a non-Muslim man and an Islamic cleric.

The man asks: “Why does Islam oblige Muslim women to wear hijab?”

In answering the question, the cleric takes out two candies; unwraps one of them and throws them both onto the floor. He asks: “If you have to choose, which candy will you pick?”

The man answers: “Of course I’ll take the wrapped one, because it’s the clean one.”

The cleric goes, “Indeed. In Islam, we protect our women through hijab.”

 Feeling disturbed with that degrading analogy, I sent him a message.

“Do you suggest that non-hijabi Muslim women are dirty? And how come you compare women with candies?”

This guy replied, “Don’t take it to your heart. Just understand that wearing hijab is an obligation in Islam, and shouldn’t be compromised.”

 It wasn’t the first time I engaged in that kind of conversation with Muslim men like him — those with the “I’m more Muslim than you” syndrome. They thought they knew Islam better just because my appearance doesn’t “represent” Islam.

In between our debates over Qur’anic verses and hadiths (saying of the Prophet Muhammad), they always slapped me a hadith telling that non-hijabi women would be burned in hell. “Remember that,” one of them warned as if he has secured himself a place in heaven.

They even called me a follower of the Liberal Islam Network (JIL), just because I refused to be forced into wearing hijab. Never in my life I’ve joined JIL nor attended its events — I don’t even agree with many of JIL’s ideas. Yet one guy easily condemned: “You can deny you’re a JIL follower, but you act just like them, so you’re one of them.”

At least I’m not the only one to receive such a condemnation. Respected ulema and former Indonesia’s religious affairs minister Quraish Shihab was once called an agent of liberal Islam and was slew with harsh words when he released his book on hijab, which argues that Islam never strictly determines the limits of women’s awrah (body parts to be covered).

Many accused him of writing the book in favor of his non-hijabi daughter, TV presenter Najwa Shihab. In his book, “Jilbab: Pakaian Wanita Muslimah” (“Jilbab: Muslim Women Attire”), Shihab presents different views of ulemas in the past and the present on hijab, encouraging readers to analyze this issue from many perspectives instead of following something blindly. He says Muslims should realize that there are other “menus” offered in Islam, and it’s important to note that Islam never intends to complicate its followers.

In fact, it’s Muslims themselves who complicate things by opting for the strictest views. On hijab, Shihab quotes Imam al-Syafi’i, one of the founders of Islamic jurisprudence, who said: “I cannot say — and even others with great knowledge will never say — that this (the hijab law) has been mujma’ ‘alaihi (universally agreed).”

Many Indonesian Islamic figures in the past, Shihab says, were very relaxed toward hijab. Although he didn’t precisely identify them, I can name famous figures like Buya Hamka, Mohammad Natsir and Agus Salim. Today, however, it seems like hijab is everything that counts in an Indonesian Muslim woman.

In 2007, I went undercover and lived for few days among prostitutes in a famous red light district in Jakarta for my investigative report. Several prostitutes there — mostly the senior ones — wore hijab. When I told this to those same friends, they said I shouldn’t link hijab with one’s piety and profession. Muslim women must wear hijab; their professions would be another case. So I asked, “In which part then hijab can protect women when they work as prostitutes?”

I’m not against hijab — who knows that someday I might wear it? But it’s the harsh judgments on one’s personal choices of religious practices that have made me swallow aspirins now and then. I can’t agree if some Muslims force something into others, like it’s God’s unquestionable truth. Even Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) couldn’t force his beloved uncle to embrace Islam.

Remember, something that’s forced will create nothing but hatred and antipathy. Do you realize that your silly hijab campaigns might be counter-productive and make non-hijabi women view hijab negatively?

You, Mr. “I’m more Muslim than you,” are angry if someone calls you a terrorist because you wear Arabic attire. And you say, “Don’t judge me from my clothes.” Now dear brothers, please apply your words as well to your non-hijabi sisters — don’t hold double standards.

Hanafi Benmaleh

Apply cold water to burned area..
kierun

And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons, their husbands’ sons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons, their sisters’ sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed. (An-Nur : 31)
Salahudin Sadono

“Following something blindly”?? It’s written in the Quran if you don’t know.
- TalkingEid
  
  Really? Actually I don’t know – what makes you think a woman’s hair is her ‘private parts’? Are you an Arabic scholar Salahudin? Can you explain to us how the Quran has been mistranslated into so many languages?
  - Valkyrie1604
    
    Eid, the guy’s just showing off! People like him often pick verses from their holy scriptures and take them out of context and when questioned can not elaborate on the issue. I call it dumb.
    
    I would like to inform SS that if he’s able to follow/live accordingly to what’s written in his holy scriptures then I’m a donkey.
    
    And, for the writer of this article, I wish to tell her that it is not “some” but many. Yes, it becomes many if they attend a religious function. Otherwise, NO!
    - MadWorld
      
      SS= Schutzstaffel?
      - Salahudin Sadono
        
        Hi, are you an Indonesian?
      - Valkyrie1604
        
        MW, tell the guy you’re a proponent of the Aryan race. Ha! Ha!
      - Salahudin Sadono
        
        Wow, I’m so touched that the aryans cared so much about Muslim’s matters. I assume you have nothing better to do. Ha! Ha! Ha!
      - Valkyrie1604
        
        I am sure you did not understand the exchange between MW and myself. It certainly shows, as I suspected!
      - Salahudin Sadono
        
        Wow, congratulations for being right at least once!
    - Salahudin Sadono
      
      “My holy scriptures”? So, you’re not even a Muslim? So why are you here, calling people dumb and such?
      - Valkyrie1604
        
        Aha! From the tone of your response, it looks like the hat fits you quite well. Must I be a Muslim to cast an opinion and why the surprise?
        
        Can you live according to what’s written in your holy scriptures? I hate bring a donkey but why don’t you make an effort to answer my challenge? If you follow this thread carefully, you’ll observe that another poster used the word ‘dumb.’
        
        SS, when you ‘sell’ something please ensure that you are familiar with the product. Other than being looked upon as being dumb, it also creates hypocrisy.
        
        Look once more at your response and search your conscience. Then tell me if I did not post something truthful.
      - Salahudin Sadono
        
        Well, don’t go blaming other believers if you can’t live according to “your” holy scriptures. Your choice, your own responsibility.
      - Salahudin Sadono
        
        Well, don’t go blaming other believers if you can’t live according to “your” holy scriptures. Your choice, your own responsibility.
  - Salahudin Sadono
    
    Quran is meant for everyone, not only for your-overrated-arabic-scholar. I don’t need to be the-so-called-arabic-scholar to understand it.
- http://www.facebook.com/uphiedragon Uphie Abdurrahman
  
  There are alternative tafsir too. Islamic scholars like Nawal El-Saadawi believes that the scripture reading of “cover up yourself with cloth down to your bosom” does not have a literal meaning — instead it is metaphorical. Either way, you miss her point: don’t judge people based on their outfit. Focus on that first.
  - Dezmond Edison Christian
    
    Therein sits the issue Uphie with much Islamic scripture, the interpretation and compounded by no definitive global ruling body. For someone who wishes to follow an hard-line agenda they can find the words – for others who wish to follow a more liberal format the words are there too
    The problem Indonesian Muslims and infact wider face is the agenda is driven by those wishing to adopt a more conservative ‘brand’ and many of those are willing to blindly kill or violate to achieve their beliefs
    Islam in Indonesia is being taken along a route alien to many but by the time they are brave enough or abused enough to stand up it may well be too late
    This is compounded still further by a general lack of education throughout the Islamic world, the rulers need a dumb and compliant population to ensure minimum obstruction to the financial abuse – an example is the willingness to beat a couple for holding hands but turn a blind eye to corruption
    - devine
      
      Well said!
    - MadWorld
      
      Touché.
    - Salahudin Sadono
      
      What’s so bad about the-so-called “conservative”? And what’s so good about “liberal format”? As we can see how corrupted America is, even though they’re so “liberal”.
      - devine
        
        Good to know that there is no corruption in Indonesia, or at least not by the Islamic parties Ahhh…sorry, its another type of corruption, one that is ok… right?
        Wonder why drinking alcohol or gambling is haram and gets you caned in Aceh a but stealing trillions of the people’s money is OK…
      - Salahudin Sadono
        
        Of course it’s OK. It’s from the infidels.
      - devine
        
        So you are on the take too, Salahudin, right? And as an excuse you will tell us it is for the purpose to forward Islam…
  - Salahudin Sadono
    
    So what’s the “metaphorical” meaning, then? I’m so eager to know.
- Valkyrie1604
  
  Not only dumb, but also blind.
  - Salahudin Sadono
    
    I’m really sorry to hear that. It must be hard for you to live like that.
Da’wah is on

first of all, it doesn’t matter whether or not people
complain about wearing “Jilbab” since it won’t change the rules of
hijab in Islam.

Secondly, rule of hijab is not simply about wearing
“Jilbab” for women. In Islam there are six aspects of hijab (related
to clothing) and it’s applied for both men and women, which are:

- clothes must cover the aurah (physical body parts). For
male, they need to cover their body from their knees to their belly button
while for women they must cover their whole body except for hands and face,

-clothes must not be transparent that other people can see
through,

-clothes must not be tight that it shows the figure of the
body,

-clothes must not be too glamorous that it attracts the
opposite sex,

-clothes of opposite sex is forbidden to be worn, and

-clothes must not resemble signs of the unbelievers (example,
symbols of other religions)
- Dezmond Edison Christian
  
  Da’wah
  
  FPI protesters below – transparent, figure hugging, quite sexy I’d say –
  
  What followed next was most droll… As the protest went to the Palace screaming kill Corby the young ladies all slide off into Plaza Indonesia and dumped the arabic garb to reveal quite lovely young smiling faces, tight jeans and in 1 case a mini skirt
  - Salahudin Sadono
    
    No proof = hoax.
    - Valkyrie1604
      
      Are you also blind? Just look at the above picture and see what the two girls on the far right of the photo are wearing. I can not see any modesty in their attire at all.
      
      Now look at the far left corner and focus on the guy standing. Does he look familiar? For certain he’s not a tourist.
      
      I don’t believe your Almighty is happy with what you’ve done.
- TalkingEid
  
  Same question to you Da’wah is on – are you a scholar of Arabic? Or simply repeating what someone has told you the Quran says?
  - Salahudin Sadono
    
    Why should he repeated what someone has told him what the Quran says? Everyone can read Quran. Just read it yourself.
    - Valkyrie1604
      
      I can’t because it’s in Arabic. Can you? BTW, please read what was posted by ‘OOPS’ I have to respect that as translations might be adulterated.
      - Salahudin Sadono
        
        Wow, you sure are giving up easily. I wonder if someday you’ll give up your life.
devine

How simple … you don’t wear a headscarf and you are a bad Muslim (person) and you wear one and then you are a good one…
No wonder all the bad things, foremost corruption, continues in our country….
___
And since only about 10-15 years ago almost NOBODY wore a headscarf, means that now most are good people and before all bad….
- TalkingEid
  
  Indeed Devine – creeping Arabisation of Indonesia
http://al-terity.blogspot.com/ Alterity

Wear what you like. End of discussion.
abelardev

Hi, I’m not a feminist nor an extremist. I do even wear a hijab while writing this comment. I’m a Muslim myself, and I’ve worn hijab for about two months by now. Let’s say that I’m still dull about Islam, I’m still a learner, and what I’m about to write is just a personal experience.
I just think that I got Kuswandini’s point of being so offended because of the hijabi thingy. I didn’t just vicariously think that way, but I used to be in her feet. Before I wore hijab, my old brother kept telling me that not wearing hijab is a violation of Islamic rules.. and I’m not a dutiful follower because of that. How shameful I was! Didn’t he make me thought that I was such a dirt in our religion, that I was not worth to be appreciated as Muslimah?

Did I ever want to wear hijab after his saying? Believe me: no, not at all. All I kept thinking was, “Why Islam is so forceful and shockingly unfair because it doesn’t let us, girls, to choose what we want to wear? Isn’t–for what I’ve believed in for years–Islam a religion about loving and sharing?”

What made me decide to wear hijab then? My dad. I asked my dad why Muslim girls must wear hijab. My dad, shockingly gave me a sophistry answer, “You must not to. You must choose to. Allah asks you to, but life is always about choosing.”

Do you feel the difference between my brother’s and my dad’s saying? My dad’s is a relief for me. There is no force to practice Islam, you just have to voluntarily choose to practice it well. Finally I made my own volition. To voluntarily take hijab as a part of me.. all in all, by my will.

We, Muslims, need to know that we can not keep offending our brothers and sisters in practicing religion or it can be our own divider. Instead, we need to show the world that all Muslims are brothers and they love each other. We can remind our brothers if they do something wrong, but we can’t just dictate and punish them for what they do not know. We, Muslims, can always remind our sisters to wear hijab, but we can’t force them to. Reminding does not equal to humiliate, to irritate, or to unjustly vex. Remember: Islam is never forceful. It is about sincere–ikhlas–not brought about by coercion. Show the world that Islam is precious!
- devine
  
  No… your story tells that it was NOT of your free will but because of brainwashing… feel sorry for you! But then it is ok too… guess it feels good now to walk around in Arabic attire (import) in multi-cultural Indonesia…
  
  ___
  
  And… your quote “we need to show the world that all Muslims are brothers”… are you sure you are a brother? I guess you are actually not a girl at all…
  - Salahudin Sadono
    
    In other comments you’re shouting about how women should be free to do what they feel like. Yet now you’re yelling at someone who weared hijab because of her own will. Congratulations on your double-standard!
- devine
  
  “Show the world that Islam is precious”…. how about PEACEFUL and ANTI-CORRUPT first…?
  A hijab does NOT make you a good person… much much more is needed for that and, just a hint, it has NOTHING to do with clothing…
  - Voxclara
    
    Wasn’t this topic appeared some weeks ago? Weird that it is made current.
    - devine
      
      It is from the JG Archive, 15.8.2012…
      - TalkingEid
        
        Slow day at the JG I guess.
  - Salahudin Sadono
    
    Why should you scream? Turn the capslock off please. And of course being a good person has everything to do with clothing. You won’t wear a slutty outfit to a church, right.
devine

Obviously you never had a smorgasbord…! Try it first and then post again… and just a hint… there is NOTHING sinful about a smorgasbord…
- Valkyrie1604
  
  It’s a sin because it’s a Swedish Christmas festival.
  - devine
    
    Not quite… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%B6rg%C3%A5sbord
    Here something similar would be a riistavel…
devine

Wrong Rajiv! Lucky that many Muslims disagree with you! And if you have not noticed yet (see your quotes), we are not Arabics but Indonesian here…

___

And… as to your “in order for it to be known that she is a free woman and so not to be exposed to any harm”… are you aware how many veiled women are raped and misused in the Islamic world every day??? Very obviously not…
- Salahudin Sadono
  
  Many Muslims? Veiled women are raped in the Islamic world every day? The statistic please? Or don’t bother to show it, because I believe you won’t be able to show it. Don’t talk without proofs.
  
  And Rajiv never said that the verse is mentioned for the Arabs. Read again.
  - Duncan
    
    Rape cases in Pakistan reported by The Express Tribune
    (A Pakistani news paper)
    
    Note 2 things , the number of children raped and also
    the amount of Islamic officials involved. I chose Pakistan because most women are covered. Please google Pakistan’s
    ‘shame’: Rape cases in 2012 For the full and massive list – here’s a few to give you a flavor
    
    Political worker accused of raping Hindu girl A 14-year-old Hindu girl, N, was raped allegedly by a local leader of the Pakistan
    Peoples Party (PPP).
    
    Heinous crime: ‘Child rapist, murderer’ arrested Accused first raped and then strangled the girl. He left her body behind a local school and fled.
    
    Strange but true: Police register rape case against eight-year-old Mankera police in Bhakkar arrested him for allegedly raping two women.
    
    Under attack: Journalists threatened for reporting
    rape caseReporter received threatening calls for reporting the rape of a six-year-old girl in Meghwadh colony.
    
    Abuse: Five-year-old girl allegedly raped The girl
    went missing while she was playing on the street outside her house.
    
    Raped for seeking justice Cruelty seems to know no
    bounds in our country with even fewer regards given to basic human rights.
    
    Five peasant girls gang-raped for ‘demanding
    wages’Five peasant girls were gang raped by their employers, because the girls asked them for their wages.
    
    Police rape — a grave failure The gang-rape case of a
    13-year-old female child victim in Ratta Amral, Rawalpindi, spoke of the baseness of human nature.
    
    I refer you to the recent report by Konmas detailing 50% of Indonesian children are sexually abused …
MadWorld

The more you are engaged in a discussion with a pious moslim, the dumber they become.
- Salahudin Sadono
  
  I’d prefer being dumb than being said that I am smart by a madman.
  - Valkyrie1604
    
    But you protested when I insinuated about being a dumb? Now, you admit a preference to being dumb? The proof is in the pudding….I mean the postings.
  - Good,Bad and Ugly
    
    You will note that very few of us are madmen. Unless of course it is simply because they question your blind faith and unquestioning obedience to something which you cannot and do not wish to prove.
    I love listening to (edited) people.
    - Salahudin Sadono
      
      I’d prefer having a blind faith than being called open-minded by (edited) people.
    - Salahudin Sadono
      
      I’d prefer having a blind faith than being called open-minded by (edited) people.
      - Valkyrie1604
        
        Are you aware of what you posted? Once again, it’s showing.
      - TalkingEid
        
        epic ‘fail’
  - mauriceg
    
    Ah, the old chestnut of labeling kafirs as madmen, and unworthy, and less than Muslims. Well, I’m a kafir. I’ve had a good education, and while not the smartest kid on the block, have a brain that gets regular exercise. I use the sense of right and wrong with which all of us are born (although many Muslims have that particular skill beaten out of them), giving rise to answers such as the above.
    - Salahudin Sadono
      
      Congratulations! You’ve just wasted your “good education” by commenting here.
      - MadWorld
        
        Empty pots make the most noise (vasa vana plurimum sonant).
        So does empty head.
  - mauriceg
    
    Ah, the old chestnut of labeling kafirs as madmen, and unworthy, and less than Muslims. Well, I’m a kafir. I’ve had a good education, and while not the smartest kid on the block, have a brain that gets regular exercise. I use the sense of right and wrong with which all of us are born (although many Muslims have that particular skill beaten out of them), giving rise to answers such as the above.
jakarta

Hi Dian, I am a moslem too, believer and practicing Islam , insya Allah. Yes, it is true that islamic rule regarding hijab has not been agreed by all of the ulemas due to various interpretations. And yes, no one can force you to wear hijab if you don’t want to, and no one can force you to believe an interpretation if you disagree with it. This apply to every moslems including you. So, you also can’t say that women who cover all of her body and are following something blindly, wrong, or brainwashed because that is how they interpret islam, and that is the way they show their devotion to Allah.

The major mistake in many moslem women today is that they don’t wear hijab not because they’ve already known varios tafsir nor they observe it, but just because they don’t care about it at all. We know that the first principle of islam is shahadat in which we express our deepest sincerity to accept Quran and Sunnah rules. If you’ve already learnt all the refferences and come to a conclusion that hijab is not obliged, and you completely confident that Allah will recognize your reason, why should you feel offended by those who force you different perspective?
Roland

Sorry to mention it – but this is an old article, formerly found at the blog section (it’s actually from August 2012) and Mr Rajiv at this time had an excellent time quoting from certain web sites. Also what now,, with the new thread which started after the new format of JG, is that he insisted in multiple posts that actually Islamic women are only allowed to look through one eye and that the other one needs to be covered too.

Now, ‘abelardev’ he quoted very clearly from the Koran – are you ready to do that too?
- http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson
  
  ROland, sorry to bother but since you seem to be an expert on this Rijiv what is he saying in his quote below:
  
  Rajiv a day ago
  
  “Wearing the jilbab or the hijab complete with full covering except the eyes are essential for all Muslimin without exception.”
  
  Is he promoting that all Muslims wear hijab?
  - MadWorld
    
    Rajiv was elaborating better to have one-eyed women than a women blinded by the cover of a cloth in front of her eyes. If women are covered totally, can’t see a damn thing, it is like the blind leading the blind.
    - http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson
      
      Ok, I thought, his statement was promoting that ALL muslims wear the hijab becuase that is what his original statement did and still does say. Someone should teach Rijiv about the edit function but then worrying about what Muslims wear must be higher up on his list.
devine

Because being a good Muslim has nothing to do with wearing or not wearing a hijab…
tony

If Quran talks about LGBT, free sex , or drinking alcohol, you will say can be mistranslated, conditional, has metaphoric meaning. But if it talks about war, than you will say it has no other meaning but clear literal dictation. I got it as your constant style.
- TalkingEid
  
  If Quran doesn’t talk about internet – why are you posting here? Are you a ‘bad’ Muslim?
tony

You have to prove it with related datas to support your accusation.
I’m reminding.
- Botak
  
  Only read read the Jakarta Globe everyday or watch the news. Everyday there are rape cases here in Indonesia.Kids, small kids, woman, teenagers and even grand mothers get raped. This should be enough prove.
  
  And honestly it doesn’t matter if they wear their headgear or not, it’s the men not able to control their lust. I don’t think wearing a hijab will reduce the rape-cases.
  
  Human live seems always to be about control. And the most are following the necessaries power games, to gain this control and power over others.
  
  Woman are precious and deliver more to live than males. They are stronger than us, so we need to control them, so that nobody can see our weaknesses.
  
  This also counts for woman:
  
  ” Children are born as giants,
  – However, with every day they awake, a piece of their strength gets lost,
  – We do something that makes them smaller.
  – Children are so long invincibly, until the vicious circle begins.
  – Until they like us adult-dwarfs, finally as small as we big ones are! “
- Valkyrie1604
  
  Hello! Hello~! you read the news? I don’t need statistics from ‘devine’ to substantiate his post. Almost every intelligent poster on this board knows that for a fact.
- Duncan
  
  I posted info – you just failed to see it
  REPOST
  
  Rape cases in Pakistan reported by The Express Tribune
  (A Pakistani news paper)
  
  Note 2 things , the number of children raped and also
  the amount of Islamic officials involved. I chose Pakistan because most women are covered. Please google Pakistan’s
  ‘shame’: Rape cases in 2012 For the full and massive list – here’s a few to give you a flavor
  
  Political worker accused of raping Hindu girl A 14-year-old Hindu girl, N, was raped allegedly by a local leader of the Pakistan
  Peoples Party (PPP).
  
  Heinous crime: ‘Child rapist, murderer’ arrested Accused first raped and then strangled the girl. He left her body behind a local school and fled.
  
  Strange but true: Police register rape case against eight-year-old Mankera police in Bhakkar arrested him for allegedly raping two women.
  
  Under attack: Journalists threatened for reporting
  rape caseReporter received threatening calls for reporting the rape of a six-year-old girl in Meghwadh colony.
  
  Abuse: Five-year-old girl allegedly raped The girl
  went missing while she was playing on the street outside her house.
  
  Raped for seeking justice Cruelty seems to know no
  bounds in our country with even fewer regards given to basic human rights.
  
  Five peasant girls gang-raped for ‘demanding
  wages’Five peasant girls were gang raped by their employers, because the girls asked them for their wages.
  
  Police rape — a grave failure The gang-rape case of a
  13-year-old female child victim in Ratta Amral, Rawalpindi, spoke of the baseness of human nature.
  
  I refer you to the recent report by Konmas detailing 50% of Indonesian children are sexually abused. AKA RAPE
Wong Edan

“but why didn’t you blame the woman, becaus she attracted the man with her clothing.” You idiot. This is why a growing number of people detest your religion – it gives rise to this kind of misogynistic belief…
- Valkyrie1604
  
  Nicely said Wong, but I am wondering how you got away with that word. Appropriately used, though.
- Valkyrie1604
  
  Nicely said Wong, but I am wondering how you got away with that word. Appropriately used, though.
Valkyrie1604

I agree! It’s very boring!
Valkyrie1604

I’ve yet to read about a rape situation at a nudists colony. Anyone please? Dirty thoughts, dirty minds and finally dirty deeds. It’s all in your head. So, watch the other head that it moves in the correct direction.
Valkyrie1604

I call that false piety. Quite close to hypocrisy.
PakLe

I think that in Indonesia there’s a direct correlation between jilbab-wearing, wealth and education. Wealthier, better educated, and therefore freer-thinking women are less likely to wear a jilbab. Poorer, under-educated women are far more likely to look to religion (and religious ‘scholars’) to tell them what to do, what to think, how to behave, and what to wear. Anyone disagree?

We could argue all day long about what the book says about it – conservatives will interpret it one way, liberals another. That’s the case with all holy books. And it’s the case that most religions benefit from lower levels of education – critical thought is the enemy of the religion industry.
- Valkyrie1604
  
  That’s an argument against a post from ‘purgelies’….”critical thought is the enemy of religion industry.” I’m not so sure I can agree to religion being an industry though. In any case, I support fully what you stated about how inclined the poor and down trodden are towards influence from religious scholars. Fear of being labelled a ‘bad Muslim’ is all they are concerned with.
  
  I once posted a similar opinion concerning this. What’s the percentage of illiterates in this country? I guess it’s quite substantial. This group will adhere to ANY religious instructions handed down to them from their religious guides. The Pied Piper of Hamelin in some ways?
  - Dirk
    
    PKS is not an industry? The leaders are seen as holy while becoming very rich through you-know-what.
  - Dirk
    
    PKS is not an industry? The leaders are seen as holy while becoming very rich through you-know-what.
http://twitter.com/14insa Arief Kurniawan

wearing hijab is mentioned in Koran. “every women in Islam must wear their hijab until cover their chest.” and Koran is the highest constitution in Islam, like UUD 1945. so, if you just pick a piece of quote from imam or sheikh you know without understand the content (Koran), it’s same with walking in dark road without a lantern. just a stupid idea.

next, I don’t even believe Imam Syafi’i will write quote like that. Syafi’i is the most strict ulama in their generation, have memorized Koran and a lot of hadits since young. please show which the part of his book he write it. I’ll very happy if you can show it to me.

and a lot of reason why this article just so stupid. double-standard? please correct your statement and keep looking the world you know, OK?
- fran
  
  koran & hadith are different book. so on Zabur and Gospel. Those book are recommended to read in Islam. Dont hate any.
Valkyrie1604

Maybe someone came up with the idea to improve sales? C’mon do some maths here. Multiply the numbers that wear. Good business too!
TalkingEid

“a man, saw a woman walking alone in a street, exposing most of her body, if a crime happened, who would you blame?” – I would blame the man – as would anyone with half a brain.
TalkingEid

DrDez – ‘think before you reply”? They don’t use reason – it is forbidden – might as well try to argue about colors with a blind man.
rustynails

“we can judge someone is a soldier by his green outfit and his attitude.” Not even close to the truth, most uniformed men in Indonesia are bullies and thugs as evidenced by their daily brutality on Indonesian citizens (and we won’t even mention their murderous activities in Tim Tim or Papua). They may dress as Soldiers but the truth is the vast majority are an insult to the profession of arms.
MadWorld

You are a lucky man Rajiv, that the Prophet still allows women to open one eye. So they can see what kind of hypocrisy (edited) you are.
Good,Bad and Ugly

Is that your logic? You have to convince your ‘women’ to dress properly so that the men will act properly?
You sound as though you want to take the blame away from the man and blame the women for wanting freedom and liberty.
Learn civilised ethics and common decency.
Salahudin Sadono

I never said that putting a headscarf will automatically make you a better person. Please learn to not putting words into someone’s mouth. If you learned that, come back and we will discuss again.
Salahudin Sadono

You failed to see everything.
Salahudin Sadono

What question?
- devine
  
  About the definition of “slutty” outfit…
  - Voxclara
    
    Slutty outfit: wearing an Islamic headscarf but with very tight body hugging outfit. Seen plenty of this in the mall…
    - TalkingEid
      
      Vox – you can also try trawling the internet – I think a few posters here will get a cheap thrill if they search the term “hijab sex” – no doubt though the results will only show ‘not REAL Muslims’.
      - Valkyrie1604
        
        Eid,, so Tif did not complete his homework. No wonder the PKS are in deep shi*.
      - Valkyrie1604
        
        Jeez, I forgot to mention that Tif is also from the PKS. Oops! Now the Minister lied to the KPK about knowing/meeting Fat. When questioned by the prosecutors he answered….I forgot!
        
        SS + Rajiv
        
        What have you to say about this guy, a minister lying?
      - Salahudin Sadono
        
        Why ask me? His lies, his sins. lol.
    - Salahudin Sadono
      
      Yeah..
devine

Well, the statement of “her own will” came from you… see your above post… and I am saying that her decision did not come her own, free will but the choice is pushed onto her… i.e by telling women that they are “slutty” if not wearing this or that…
___
And by the way, no other major religion makes you dress in a certain way day in day out…
- Salahudin Sadono
  
  Well they’re hypocrites then. Wearing nun outfit when going to church but wearing bikini when go jogging.
- Salahudin Sadono
  
  Well they’re hypocrites then. Wearing nun outfit when going to church but wearing bikini when go jogging.
  - Valkyrie1604
    
    You were watching someone jogging in a bikini outfit? Now, that’s being honest. I trust you have a good sense of imagination, but, watch the adrenalin flow.
    - Salahudin Sadono
      
      I’d prefer watching someone swimming in a jogging outfit.
      - Valkyrie1604
        
        Now you’re being silly. Anyway, it’s your preference and a weird one in fact.
  - MadWorld
    
    Living in EU sinds 1970, never seen joggers in Bikini except in my wildest dream, hohoho.
    - Valkyrie1604
      
      MW….wet or dry?
    - Salahudin Sadono
      
      hohoho, merry christmas! Now, why are you reading “Jakarta” globe?
      - MadWorld
        
        What has christmas to do with it. We are discussing jogging in bikini, and in December it’s winter in EU (except in the southern hemisphere), temperature going zero degrees, then the European started wearing hijab to keep them warm.
        I think you are brain dead by the next discussion.
        Why Am I reading Jakarta Globe,wel, It have A non-Sunni-moslim forum,&, I like to see how Indonesia is progressing?
        To keep my brain posted.
      - Valkyrie1604
        
        Don’t know about MW, but I read JG for reliable information and at times to enjoy reading foolish postings from people such as you.
Salahudin Sadono

Why did the cavemen only wear minimum outfit centuries ago then…? Please explain…
- MadWorld
  
  Because Muhammad was born outside the cave.
Salahudin Sadono

Why did the cavemen only wear minimum outfit centuries ago then…? Please explain…
TalkingEid

Since when? Other religions posit the idea of free will very strongly Salahudin. That’s why they stress that ‘goodness’ is a matter of individual conscience.
TalkingEid

Since when? Other religions posit the idea of free will very strongly Salahudin. That’s why they stress that ‘goodness’ is a matter of individual conscience.
- Salahudin Sadono
  
  Just pick the “other religions” then. They won’t tell you to wear hijab. Simple.
TalkingEid

It’s not missed by non-Muslims Salahudin – and in his birthplace Kemal Attaturk is known as ‘the father of the nation” and is generally acknowledged as a very wise ruler, both in Turkey and the rest of the civilized world. Only those who yearn for some kind of despotic theocracy hate him.
TalkingEid

It’s not missed by non-Muslims Salahudin – and in his birthplace Kemal Attaturk is known as ‘the father of the nation” and is generally acknowledged as a very wise ruler, both in Turkey and the rest of the civilized world. Only those who yearn for some kind of despotic theocracy hate him.
TalkingEid

No point in using reason to discuss irrational beliefs. Include me out.
- MadWorld
  
  Make the two of us !
  - http://twitter.com/14insa Arief Kurniawan
    
    honestly, three of us.
TalkingEid

No point in using reason to discuss irrational beliefs. Include me out.
Valkyrie1604

Vox….WOW!
Valkyrie1604

MW, I am still trying to understand that jibber-jabber.
Valkyrie1604

You’re going deeper into the abyss of idiocy. Maybe the Prophet disallowed it but God gave men ‘free will.’ Hence the beginning of your Faith.
Valkyrie1604

What do you expect from someone (I’ve posted it a couple of times actually) who’s DUMB?
MadWorld

If I do not have a religion, will you leave me at peace, in what I am wearing, doing, eating,??? I don’t think so, because you area munafik.
- Salahudin Sadono
  
  Of course I will find you, and I won’t let you live peacefully. Lol, what a waste of time. You’re not even worth it.
MadWorld

If you wish to go hiding, you can stay at my house in EU.
Roland

Whoaaah, that’s by far the weirdest contribution in regards of the discussion regarding the hijab IMHO – sorry ‘Laviathan’ …
Duncan

of course saying you dont have a religion gets you 5 years in jail or death by the Muslim mob in Indo
Valkyrie1604

Can anyone, honestly tell the gender of these people in the photo?
Remember the famous Noordin M Top? The guy with a lacerated anus? Well, I believe he got around wearing something close to this.
Valkyrie1604

Can anyone, honestly tell the gender of these people in the photo?
Remember the famous Noordin M Top? The guy with a lacerated anus? Well, I believe he got around wearing something close to this.
Dirk

Very few Indonesians read the Koran, even in translation. Just for fun, ask an Indonesian Muslim what the Koran says about Jesus.
“Ngaji” is just sounding out the words without understanding them, basically mantra.
Dirk

Very few Indonesians read the Koran, even in translation. Just for fun, ask an Indonesian Muslim what the Koran says about Jesus.
“Ngaji” is just sounding out the words without understanding them, basically mantra.
Dirk

I have noticed several instances of pickpocketing and fraud in Jakarta being committed by women wearing jilbabs, not just in the news but also a friend was victimized on an angkot.
- devine
  
  And some sneak out of prison this way…
  - http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson
    
    You mean men dressed as women in a hijab, got to be something perverted about that.
    - Valkyrie1604
      
      Noordin M Top!
Dirk

I have noticed several instances of pickpocketing and fraud in Jakarta being committed by women wearing jilbabs, not just in the news but also a friend was victimized on an angkot.
Valkyrie1604

Where are they? love to join you.
Valkyrie1604

Where are they? love to join you.
Valkyrie1604

Bravo! Bravo! Duncan. Truly enjoyed reading your post (twice)
Valkyrie1604

DON’T start spinning and stick to the thread. You’ve run out of lies. In other words, plain and simple….stop bull[edit].
Valkyrie1604

I agree with you Rajiv. Totally agree with you without ANY reservations because in this country, there are many, many apostates. This is predicating upon what you claim..
Valkyrie1604

You can’t because you’re so dumb.
- Salahudin Sadono
  
  Then you are dumber and the two of us can make a good movie.
Valkyrie1604

So, if the Prophet practiced it then why this big hoo-ha over the guy who has eight wives? You like to tell this to MUI?
- Salahudin Sadono
  
  Tell that yourself.
Valkyrie1604

I can’t believe it! You’re being honest. Now, are you willing to condemn the FPI and others who are guilty?
- Salahudin Sadono
  
  Go ahead condemning them. Or are you only brave on the internet?
devine

Thanks for the link, Roland. Quite some shocking information there…
Maliki

Dear Ms. Dian, I really wish that those unpleasant experiences wouldn’t even discourage u for finding the truth in Islam…Islam taught every moslem to encourage people with wisdom and beatiful preaching (16:125) . I realize how hard to do so, but I believe every moslem would strive their best for this. I hope you wear hijab very soon and spread the beauty of Islam on your own..Wassalaamu’alaikum
- antifreeze
  
  Perhaps you could enlighten us as to why God created facial features/ sex organs ( complete with foreskins and clitoral appendages) and even head hair if these things are meant to be hidden or excised? I realize that these edicts are not to be questioned religiously, but then why did he even give us brains to do so?
- MadWorld
  
  Your God is not my God.
MadWorld

A discovery channel A Real Blind Date, !
MadWorld

Now you are talking sense.
Salahudin Sadono

The things that you said might be wrong, might be wrong too. lol.
Salahudin Sadono

What? What really happened? Ooh I’m so eager to know!
Salahudin Sadono

kemal attaturk failed then. lol.
Botak

In favor of Salahudin!

starting reading the post from the start, I can’t see any insulting in his posts until the point when he needed to defend himself.

He admitted that he is an conservative Muslim, but he isn’t a radical.

The most of us here are against the religious intolerance here in Indonesia. But for this we also shouldn’t forget to be tolerant.

Salahudin didn’t try to force his believe on anyone. He only mentioned his view and what he believes. He didn’t try to prove us wrong and he is only standing up to his believe, what I personal respect. Salahudin got his own believe and his own view of it. From where he got it doesn’t matters , same for me and the rest of us.

we don’t have to agree with somebodies point and believe system, but at least if we can accept and respect that everyone got his own believe system we are having a great start for religious tolerance.

And one thing speaks for Salahudin, he didn’t start hiding, he is backing up HIS believe system, compared to Rajiv who always will start hiding when he run out of arguments.
devine
Salahudin Sadono

Yes I do.
- MadWorld
  
  Tell me who am I?? for example start with my education, compare it with yours. Then we talk.
  - Salahudin Sadono
    
    Well… you didn’t graduate from kidergarten… and, umm…
http://twitter.com/14insa Arief Kurniawan

first, correct your statement. before they are caught in operation, they are never wear “holy masks”. you can see Nazaruddin wife photo in the past. is she use a hijab? no. and also the others. but, when they are caught by KPK, why they are using mask simultaneously? why? embarassing, I guess…

second, don’t you know about sex scandal in church? yeah, we are human, we are never perfect, because God is the only one. wearing hijabs or become a cleric/sister never guarantee us to be a good Muslim/Christian. but, this is not about become good in our religion. this is about following the religion, following the order, and indirectly become good follower in our religion. imagine it: if we don’t obey even a slightly order in religions, how we can say ourselves are “good servant?” I don’t understand about Christianity, but I believe, Jesus will be very sad if their lamb don’t follow His order, their God order. CMIIW.

and never talk about other religion you don’t believe. this is “our” religion, ant that’s “your” religion. we can live in modern world, open-mind world, freedom world. but, can’t we respect others privacy (in this case: wearing hijab for muslim sisters)? can’t we respect other religions?
MadWorld

You mean it was destined for high society moslem women, now, to day, hijacked by despicable women of the lower class.
MadWorld

Endless sex & ALCOHOL, are you serious? Viagra too?
MadWorld

Here comes Rajiv, Olé
Salahudin Sadono

I hope you have taken your medicines
Wayan, PIA

that is the key point girl that many posters are making, in that rather than taking responsibility for his behavior, the man, whom the holy Qur’an deems superior to women, should be shielded from temptation by hiding away the temptation instead of facing up to it and dealing with it as a civilized human
Thus you as a women are subjugated for them and not for any noble reason or for reasons of faith. The mere fact you feel the want to post demonstrates just how deep the inequality and indoctrination runs
Wayan
Dunc

nothing to do with the Cypriot issues them?
http://twitter.com/sherrydear gejag

Hypocrits
Kay

So how about you Dian Kuswandini, what is your reason for not putting the veil on? Well i believe you already know the main rule of covering yourself, even men should do the same.

Instead you ask why some women dont wear it, ask why many intrllectual women do wear it?

Salam
Darren1

Hmm… Reminds me of the following in the Bible: “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.” (Leviticus 25:44-46)

Or this… “As you approach a town to attack it, first offer
its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may
keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.” (Deuteronomy
20:10-14)
- TalkingEid
  
  Thanks darren but I think you missed something – It’s called the New Testament. Try it sometime.
  - Valkyrie1604
    
    Eid, that’s the problem.
  - Darren1
    
    I’ve read it – it’s full of contradictions. Try http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/paul_carlson/nt_contradictions.html
Muffinman

I like the one in green. Obviously an environmentalist. She’s hot !
Rajiv

WebEd, I am re posting the below for the 2nd time, why was it is not published?

What Aisha the Ummul Mu’minin (the mother of all believers) the beloved wife of our holy Prophet SAW said regarding the use of a face veil?

Hadith : Bukhari # 282
Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba:`Aisha used to say: “When (the Verse): “They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,” was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces.”

Tafseer – Ibn Katheer
“Allah commanded the muslim women to cover this sheet on top of them to cover their bodies except one eye, when it is necessary for them to come out of their homes.”

It is mandatory for all Muslimahs to cover up from head to toe even their faces as Aisha the mother of all believers herself observed and no doubt covered up. It is the command of Allah SWT.

Some posters accuse me of hiding when I can’t come up with any answers. PROVE IT ! However I see no point in responding to insults.

Others say I post my interpretation. It is not my interpretation but that of the Islamic scholars. If the Noble Qu’ran says you should cover up, if the Hadith clearly says you should cover up, if the most beloved wife of our holy Prophet SAW, Aisha the mother of all believers observed that Muslimahs covered up, then as a good Muslimah you have no choice but to cover up as instructed.
- devine
  
  “The Prophet married ‘Aisha before she had reached puberty
  and consummated the marriage when she was approximately 9 years old..” Hardly a chance to choose by herself at the ago of 9?! Beside that, since modern times people that “consumate” 9year olds are called phedophiles and go to jail…
  - Rajiv
    
    Ms devine, what’s Aisha’s age got to do with her observation of the face veil ? Aren’t you trying to be insulting? I know, you profess to be Christian the follower of Jesus son of Mary. Is this how you are taught to behave by your religion?
    - devine
      
      This whole threat is about if women are free or not to choose to wear a vail. Trying to be insulting? In what way? By stating facts?
      
      You know that I am a Christian? How would you know?
      
      ___
      
      What I am saying is, that certain things are different today, i.e. that you are a phedophile if you have sex with underage people and hence a criminal nowadays. Same if you keep slaves as the holy Prophet SAW did. I hope you agree on that… !?
      
      If we fully follow what the holy Prophet SAW said (as you propose), would it then not be normal to have sex with underaged and holding slaves?
      
      And if not, why is it then that we MUST follow some things what the holy Prophet SAW said (i.e. veil) and other things not…???
      - Valkyrie1604
        
        Precisely what I am thinking. (beat me to that) Ahem! Then they should not be issuing an edict against that guy “Subur” with 7 wives?
        Etc., etc., etc.,
Chemink

i wanna put this article on my blog, I believe in islam/moslem, i believe in Allah and i pray but i am not wearing hijab/veil, probably someday. But the main point is We just need to be a good person and live our life in a positive way. No matter what your religion is.
Hooswho

I have made a conscious decision not to wear a hijab – it makes my beard itch

My wife has reached the same conclusion – it makes her beard itch too!!
Darren1

Checked it – nothing about sex or virgins. 37:40 says “But not the chosen servants of Allah” 37:41 and :42 mention fruits, not virgins.

In 33:50 and :51 – ” (50) Thou canst defer whom thou wilt of them and receive unto thee whom thou wilt, and whomsoever thou desirest of those whom thou hast set aside (temporarily), it is no sin for thee (to receive her again); that is better; that they may be comforted and not grieve, and may all be
pleased with what thou givest them. Allah knoweth what is in your hearts (O men), and Allah is ever Forgiving, Clement. (51) It is not allowed thee to take (other) women henceforth, nor that thou shouldst change them for other wives even though their beauty pleased thee, save those whom thy right hand possesseth. And Allah is ever Watcher over all things.”

Nothing about free sex, says cannot take other wives, and that wives should be happy ‘ “that they may be comforted and not grieve, and may all be pleased…”
lost.in.translation

covering women up doesn’t protect them or prevent them from being a rape target. if the dirty mind is there, we’re still not protecting them from anything
Valkyrie1604

They are known as “Ibrahim” “Musa” and “Nuh”. Jesus was referred to as “Isa”. You will note that the Holy Bible both OT and NT were written long before the Koran. As I remember, Islam of old forbid any translations of their scriptures. No other language except Arabic. I believe you are able to outsource translations now but to my knowledge that is actually forbidden. Perhaps someone knowledgeable can confirm this?

Current day Christians often use the RSV. The Saint James version of the Old Testament are used for references.

It is totally impossible to follow what’s written in the OT. I am no Bible scholar but I do have the presence of mind to choose what’s appropriate for our time.

I enjoyed stories about Noah during my childhood days. All pairs of animals including the swine.
Valkyrie1604

I’ve seen them in Singapore too! Not too many though.
TalkingEid

slipping into a coma now…………….
MadWorld

Taliban style Miss World Pageant.
To prevent the jury to become horny.
MadWorld

You mean freedom of religion?

Mind your own business !

But why are the MUI,FPI,HTI,FUI,Garis,Kisdi,DDII,GPMI,JAT, to name just a few start prosecuting/proselytizing other beliefs?

Why Some Muslim Women Don’t Wear Hijab

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