Angkel:

Re your post 1147 of Sep., 12th.

I don't believe anyone on this thread wants to take a "bash" at Islam per se and that includes myself.

You appear to have a wrong perception of people's comments and inadvertently develop a defensive position by responding in a silly manner.....like using the word "majority" or "democracy" without truly understanding their meaning.

I don't know about the others, but I can see what you're doing and I feel it a waste of my time writing long/several posts. Whatever for? You have adopted your stance while your respondents have theirs. Thoughts running on parallel lines which will certainly have no end.

I am not fond of that and so I do sometimes adopt a one liner post, just to participate or drive a point.

Can I assume that you profess the Islamic faith? If so, can you tell me honestly if you can understand what is written in your Holy Scriptures? Predicating on this, (I'm assuming you can't) it means that you're swallowing hook line and sinker from whatever religious messages that you receive.

Then, would you agree with me that majority (by my estimate 95%) of your fellow faithfuls DO NOT speak or even understand the Arabic language? So, where's the learning?

You initiated this move, and I hope you would be polite enough to reciprocate with valid answers and to the point.

Ankel - the majority of Indonesians I know don't want a violent Islamic dominated society BTW They don't want Shariah Law, They do want peace between religions and they do want freedoms and democracy for all.

I think therefore you are the minority and by your own reckoning piss off to Aceh where they attack Imans who speak about peace ...

It occurs to me that the constant referral to "Western" this and "Religious" that and the ensuing bickering using these arguments in many of the seemingly unrelated news topics presented in these pages is a direct result of this "secular democracy's" inability to separate state from religion.

Indonesia wants the international "prestige" of being labeled a democratic country, however, it’s Government insists on kowtowing to the "tyranny of the majority or vocal and violent religious minority" and NOT protecting the rights, freedoms and safety of the other minorities not subscribing to the majority religion.

Through its support and /or implementation of religious or other unconstitutional and undemocratic legislation, this country does NOT deserve the title “Democratic”.

On a more philosophical note, it's surely hard to imagine a more pointlessly futile exercise than learning the words of the Koran parrot fashion whilst not understanding what they mean, however such an approach to religion is deemed an "education" from Indonesia all the way to Pakistan, where people also don't speak Arabic as their native language. In fact, an attempt by a cleric here to preach passages from the Koran that he had translated into Indonesian ended up in him being imprisoned a couple of years back. This is anti-intellectualism raised to the n-th power

@devine: great answer completely suport this