Welcome Guest   |  Login   |   Signup
JG Logo
Fri, May 25, 2012
Archive Search

Fighting the NII With Pancasila
Dwi Lusiana | May 09, 2011

Share This Page
50
10
0
24
Share with google+ :


Post a comment
Please login to post comment

Comments

DrDez
8:47pm May 11, 2011

Forget……Welcome to the cynical posse :)

The point about the TV debate is really important. The fact that they can have it with a selected audience and guests to ensure a good kicking for the Papists is one of the main differences between the two religions place in society - and is a great example of the point PadT and others made. They called out the Pope and he stayed home tending his flock (or his bank account). In the words of Jesus he turned the other cheek..

As a comparison consider the Mohammad cartoons and the response by Islam in general (not just radicals) this is symptomatic of many Muslims ultra sensitivity and willingness to turn to violence –

But why? Well the difference is in part due to the separation of religion and politics (power) due to the reformations and part to do with the deep indoctrination that encourages Muslims to seek retribution to those who offend. That is the reason that even moderate Muslims can be mobilized to do such things as kill Ahamdi. They do not see it as a crime, indeed they are just following the prophet - whereby in other countries they clearly are criminals. Add a rice box and $10 and you have 1000 decent people who would normally be working in the fields burning churches.

If you read your history (not religious texts) Pope Urban II used a similar tool to send hundreds of thousands to their death - ‘Deus Vult’or God wills it - he gave absolution to the masses for crimes past and crimes to come so long as they were committed against the Moor – Reverse that and it is almost exactly the same principle Islam uses today.

Islam is based around ‘us’ and ‘not us’ The major task facing Islam if it is to modernize is that there is no agreement what ‘us’ means and results in Muslims killing Muslims all over the world.

I hear many people say those are not real Muslims who do such things… Well they believe they are and that in the here and now is what counts.

Progression in Islam is impossible without a serious radical reform. There are many reformists but all of them tend towards the conservative and any that try to influence from a liberal perspective quickly become ‘not us’ and have a tendency to get blown up. Thus the small number of ultra radicals are playing the tune and with the constant ‘us’ ‘not us’ threat many moderates do not speak because of fear

Any positive change in Islam here if any is forthcoming will need to be politically motivated but since the tie in with block votes of Islamic groups the likelihood in my lifetime is I fear zero. The summary therefore is the radicals will continue to set the agenda and Islam will just continue its deadly path growing ever more radical and oppressive within and without


Valkyrie
4:31pm May 11, 2011

Nicely done guys! Way to go for being gracious to one another.


padt
3:30pm May 11, 2011

forgetyourself, thank you for your gracious words.

Your comments about a television show debating whether Catholicism is a force for good in the world and the overwhelming opinion of the participants being that it is not - is to be expected. That's what televison shows are all about - and that's the kind of audiences they select for such shows. You didn't for one moment expect an honest debate did you? Or that many on the panel actually knew what Catholicism is on about?

Catholic baiting and bagging is a universal world sport these days.

I bet few if any on the panel who thought ill of Catholicism have actullay read or understood any of the church's doctrines - not an easy task even for someone like me who has studied and taught theology for over 30 years. But most people seem to be content to get their knowledge of catholicism for the Press, televison and popular opinion. Why only yesterday I read a Muslim website discsuuing catholic beliefs and discounting them out of hand - and you know what - I didn't recognize one thing in what the Muslim webs site said catholics actually believe. It was a muslim interpretation of that so called belief and as far from the actually teaching as possible.

A lot of westerners have the same approach.

There are plenty of people who say they hate catholicism - there are very few amongst these people (if any) who actually understand it.

I hope you really don't take much notice of what you see and hear on televison.

We all have bad days.

Let me give you a bit of advice from a Catholic Saint - St. Ignatius Loyola. "Never make a decision on a dark and gloomy day."

By the way, it takes a man to apologize. Thanks. No offence taken though.


forgetyourself
2:36pm May 11, 2011

@padt: My deepest apologies! You did not rant about jesus and did not show arrogance. I re-read your comment and my response and realized my words were offensive and uncalled for. I was having a bad day. I am not usually so scornful.

Anyway, from personal experience, there are many open minded, free thinking muslims and many close minded christians and vice versa. Im sure everyone who has commented here has friends from different faiths that display qualities of both. It's hard to say that if one comes from a particular faith, then he/she will be this or that. Each person is an individual with their own mind. Religion is jsut one factor in our lives. But after reading the posts here, if all the facts are correct, then it appears that Islam as an organised religion needs to reform if it is to survive and adapt in the 21 century.

I am not religious so couldnt care either way. I remember watching an interesting debate on BBC world, topic was 'is Catholicism a force for good in the world?'. The audience overwhelmingly voted against the motion! Very interesting - it's available on Youtube.


forgetyourself
11:49am May 11, 2011

@padt: My deepest apologies! You did not rant about jesus and did not show arrogance. I re-read your comment and my response and realized my words were offensive and uncalled for. I was having a bad day. I am not usually so scornful.

Anyway, from personal experience, there are many open minded, free thinking muslims and many close minded christians and vice versa. Im sure everyone who has commented here has friends from different faiths that display qualities of both. It's hard to say that if one comes from a particular faith, then he/she will be this or that. Each person is an individual with their own mind. Religion is jsut one factor in our lives. But after reading the posts here, if all the facts are correct, then it appears that Islam as an organised religion needs to reform if it is to survive and adapt in the 21 century.

I am not religious so couldnt care either way. I remember watching an interesting debate on BBC world, topic was 'is Catholicism a force for good in the world?'. The audience overwhelmingly voted against the motion! Very interesting - it's available on Youtube.


Malang, East Java. Nur Fadli Akbar, a 14-year-old pesantren student in East Java, calmly listed the five principles of Indonesia’s state ideology, Pancasila.

The student at Al-Munawwaroh Kedungkandang Islamic boarding school then added, “We are not allowed to commit adultery, to lie, to speak roughly to our friends or hurt them. If we commit these violations, we will be punished.”

At a time of rising concern that the extremist Indonesian Islamic State (NII) movement is making inroads in the country’s boarding schools and universities, pesantren officials in East Java are confident their students are safe because of the schools’ focus on Pancasila and good morals.

Lookh Makhfudz, who runs Al-Munawwaroh in Malang, said that whether the schools were under Nahdlatul Ulama or Muhammadiyah — the two largest Islamic organizations in the country — they taught the values of Pancasila, with its emphasis on pluralism.

Lookh said Pancasia might have disappeared from the curriculums of public schools, but it was still a big part of boarding schools affiliated with Muhammadiyah and NU.

The roots of the NII stretch back to the 1940s, when the Islamist militia known as Darul Islam, led by Sekarmadji Maridjan Kartosuwiryo, fought for the establishment of an Islamic state. Kartosuwiryo was captured and executed in 1962, but his teachings live on across the archipelago.

The NII has lately been suspected of infiltrating universities, mosques and even politics in its attempt to recruit members and work toward its goal of an Islamic state.

“All the owners and operators of Islamic boarding schools in East Java, whether they are under the NU or Muhammadiyah, are certain that the NII and its teachings will never enter our schools. We uphold and live by Pancasila and Unity in Diversity,” Lookh told the Jakarta Globe over the weekend.

]“All of us principals of Islamic boarding schools, whether NU or Muhammadiyah, agree on one thing — we do not consider the NII as part of Islam. The teachings of the NII need to be rejected,” he added.

Lookh said that like most pesantren officials across Java, he was aware of the presence of the NII and how the movement operated. In 2004, he said he was visited by a Malang resident who claimed to be a top official of the NII.

“He came for help. He wanted badly to be rehabilitated from the ways of the NII, which he believed was tearing his family apart,” said Lookh, who is also a Malang councilor.

He said other former NII members had come to him and told him that members were encouraged to lie to and extort money from their parents, since they were not part of the movement.

“NII members are made to believe that it is not wrong to steal from your parents because it is the duty of parents to provide their children with money, and the duty of NII members to make daily donations to the NII for its movement. This teaching, clearly, is not part of Islam, and will never make its way into our boarding schools,” Lookh said, adding that his boarding school was under Muhammadiyah.

“My boarding school has 200 students. I can assure you that our students are equipped with strong cultural studies to fight off such bad influences.

“We practice Pancasila in our daily lives. In our code of conduct, in politeness, in being democratic. All Indonesians must know the five principles of Pancasila and practice them in their daily lives.”

The five principals of the state ideology are faith in God, just humanity, the unity of Indonesia, social justice and the people’s democracy.

“If religious leaders across the nation understand the teachings of the NII, there is no way they will allow the NII into their boarding schools,” Lookh said. “The NII is not Islam, because Islam does not teach you to lie or steal.”

Yatimul Ainun heads Al-Hikmah Lil Muttaqin boarding school in Malang.

He said the 1,000 students at his pesantren, which is under the NU, received a solid grounding in human relations, the need to be good citizens, humans’ relationship with nature and the principles of Pancasila.

“These teachings make up 25 percent of our curriculum outside of the normal subjects at our schools,” Yatimul said. “Islam does not allow people to lie to their parents, and certainly not to cause them so much pain. To deny or defy your parents is strictly forbidden in Islam’s tenets. We all reject the teachings of the NII.”