JBP

So you actually don't have an answer or perhaps its too radical to say thus exposing your Wahhabist thinking?

You ask a question I answer, I ask a question, you ignore or deflect.(always actually)..

Here is the repost in case you missed it.. You said 'so what do you people want?' (in relation to law enforcement)

I replied

JPB

What I want (re Law) is fair and equal enforcement throughout the nation. I want a police force that uses its common sense and works for the nations common good. If that equality means arresting a banana thief then ok - but it should be consistent and not subject to money, status or religion.

What do you want??

Trueblue

Even after 18 years driving for me I still have to tell him from time to time. The most common is when he waits and takes some food - you can be sure he leaves his trash. His peers snigger at him when I tell him off, then he tells them to clean up their mess and usually they do.. Is that a crime or ignorance? Well Indonesians (maids/workers etc) in Singapore don't do it - they know its wrong.. However it is this disregard for basic rules that filters into everyday life. You see kids learn from what they see. Their parents for example trash the streets then of course they will and the next and the next, only it gets worse and more serious things become trivial and a cycle of disregard becomes the norm.

I am sure I will be accused of pressing Western values on the oppressed post colonials again, but its hard to argue against the reality

DrDez

Yep, when it comes to driving I must 'fess up! Late last night travelled from BSD City to our home in East Jakarta, distance 70km, time 40mins., my speed on the toll 130kmh. For yourself, do you instruct your driver to observe speed limits or are you a passive petty criminal like myself on the roads? It's contagious!

Trueblue

I would say from my experience that the vast number of Indonesians view petty crime as a way of life. The definition of petty depends very much on your financial baseline BTW

We hear so much about morality from the religious people but most of them still commit petty crimes on a daily basis - be it driving or throwing rubbish into the street or tax evasion or copyright theft or 'gifts' for favours etc - The basic concept of right and wrong is lost on many in this nation. In fact I believe that many/most do not even consider their acts as criminal even when they are caught.

I anticipate a backlash from JPB et al but I defy anyone Indonesian or otherwise to provide evidence on the contrary .. When petty crime is no longer a crime then the slide has begun into anarchy.

DrDez

There are a number points coming through that tick the box. We agree that common sense must be applied. The juvenile justice system, and the processing and methods of dealing with first offenders must go to the top of the list for immediate review and reform. Your anecdote of your first encounter with the law was also in the context of parents who enshrined honesty and truthfulness, two things that are sadly missing today and in my opinion comes before "godliness". How can youths who have their full faculties be upright citizens, when those who should be role models continue to be front page news for acts of dishonesty? We will never live in a perfect world, but those who wish to enshrine dishonesty as a national way of life must be vigilantly damned and exposed and properly punished. There tens of millions of decent Indonesians, who even in humble circumstances send their children to school in clean clothes, live frugally, and obey the laws of the land and their convictions.