Venus & Mars: Should One Change Religions for Love?
Katrin Figge & Tasa Nugraza Barley | April 19, 2011
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436321Tasa, what happened when one of them is an atheist (in practical)? Should you expected the atheist back to religion?
GBU, It should have read civil liberties, rather than rights, however they are similar. With a foreign name it is difficult to buy property. For Women especially, legally if the wife wishes to travel abroad on her own, immigration can ask her for her letter of permission from her husband rarely happens but it is a legal fact. If the husband dies in testate, the property even if purchased by the wife reverts to the state automatically. There are dozens of little things that make life very difficult for Indonesians that take a western name and have it registered on their KTP. Retaining her own name can prevent a great deal of irritation and a lot of problems. It is of course not necessary but my wife an I are certainly glad she did retain her name. Registering of companies and a variety of day to day legal issues are so much easier with the Indonesian partner retaining their own name.
"A good idea being not to have the Indonesian spouse take the foreign spouse name so that the KTP does not reflect loss of certain civil rights back home."
What civil rights are lost back in Indonesia?
State should absolutely have no control over personal issues of the citizens. Indonesia has six official religions after all, so it has to be a secular country in order to be fair to all believers (or even non-believers). I'm an Indonesian, a muslim myself, married to a Croatian citizen, a Catholic. Neither of us practice nor going to any mosque/church, neither of us want to baptise our future kids in any way, any religion (which also would be a problem in Indonesia once the want to get married). We got married in Croatia, and by the law, Indonesia should recognize our legal marriage. Although there is no problem so far, but I personally fully agree that state should not involve in personal affairs by any means.
If one member of a partnership can't get over their particular fairytale in order to marry someone they profess to love that's their business, but the government should have absolutely no say in it.
Getting slightly off topic, the outrage over the child abuse scandals isn't only that the self claimed moral guardians of society were/are involved, it's that the Catholic church attempted to cover it up and protect the abusers at the expense of the abused. Just like we have islamic 'scholars' justifying murder. As has been said "A bad man does bad things but it takes religion to make good man do bad things" (and then get away with it!)
Ah, to fall in love. To find the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. To hear — and accept — the proposal. To plan the wedding.
But wait, there’s something wrong. A tiny detail set to destroy everything you’ve ever dreamed of — your partner is of a different religion to you.
In Indonesia, this is a big problem for couples, because the law prohibits marriage between people of different religions. This fact alone, to me, is inexplicable.
It’s hard enough to meet “the one,” but then not being able to tie the knot with that person because they happen to pray in a mosque instead of a church or a temple? Because the government won’t allow it? Who are they to decide anyway?
When I was living in Germany, it never occurred to me that this could be a problem. So when my Indonesian boyfriend broke up with me because he is Muslim and I am Christian, I struggled to comprehend why he thought our different religions were a legitimate reason to call it quits. His feelings hadn’t changed, he assured me, but my unwillingness to convert to Islam was the deciding factor.
Even though we remain good friends, there is something that really bothers me about this scenario — apparently, in Indonesia, it is a given that the woman must follow the man. And if the girl doesn’t oblige, well, then it’s goodbye.
One of my Indonesian cousins once told me that if I ever ended up marrying somebody of a different faith, he would have trouble accepting me as a family member. A couple of years later, he himself got married to a girl who converted from Islam to Christianity. “In this case, it’s fine,” he said, “because she followed me. She is the woman, after all.”
However, he didn’t seem happy when I applied the same logic to my situation. “So you can’t actually be upset when I change my religion in order to get married? I am the woman, after all,” I said. But he didn’t agree.
“If he really loves you, then he shouldn’t force you to do anything you don’t want,” he said. Why can’t the same be true the other way around? Would he have converted for his wife?
I think it is plain stupid not to allow a couple to get married because of religion. And if it is going to be an issue, why does it generally have to be the woman who converts? Is it because of some old-fashioned, chauvinist way of thinking that the man should have more power and more rights?
Say it with me: plain stupid.
Katrin Figge is deputy features editor at the Jakarta Globe.
People from the West may find it hard to believe that Indonesians still see religion as a very important aspect of life. They sometimes wonder why we make things so complicated in the name of God.
In the West, when two people plan to spend their lives together, the first question they ask their future partner is, “Do you love me?” When the answer is yes, other inquiries may follow. “Are we financially ready?” “Where will we live when we are married?” “How many children will we have?”
But in Indonesia, the first issue has nothing to do with love, it is about whether our partner is of the same faith as us. If the answer is no, we then ask if he or she is willing to convert.
Even though I have been influenced by the modern lifestyle of Jakarta, I still consider religion to be very important. And while I don’t object to interfaith marriages, I myself would never marry someone who wasn’t of the same religion as me.
It’s not because I think other beliefs are wrong, or that their followers are infidels. It is simply because I think a boat should not be steered by two people with different ideas about life.
When it comes to converting for the purpose of marriage, it is no secret that the woman is usually the one who yields. In Indonesia, this largely happens because men are seen as leaders of the family. Thus, it is the woman’s duty to convert to her future husband’s religion, and not the other way around.
On behalf of Indonesian men, I would like to apologize for this unfair assumption. I know, we men tend to be self-centered, especially when it comes to upholding our principals.
My advice for interfaith couples would be to determine who is the more devoutly religious person in the partnership.
If the man is a lazy Muslim, who finds it hard to get out of bed to perform the Friday morning prayer at the mosque, then he shouldn’t be forcing his future wife to convert. In fact, in that case, the woman has the right to make him convert.
However, if the woman is a Christian who never bothers to go to church on a Sunday morning, because of all the wild parties she attends on Saturday nights, then the man can rightfully encourage her to convert to his religion.
If the two cannot come to an agreement, however, there is another solution: they could buy a couple of plane tickets and get married in another country.
Tasa Nugraza Barley is features reporter at the Jakarta Globe.
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