Islamic Hard-Liners Attack Ahmadiyah Community for Koran Recital

A file photo shows an Ahmadiyah Mosque destroyed by mobs in Haurwangi, Ciranjang, Cianjur, West Java on Feb.18.2012. (JG Photo/Rezza Estily)

A file photo shows an Ahmadiyah Mosque destroyed by mobs in Haurwangi, Ciranjang, Cianjur, West Java on Feb.18.2012. (JG Photo/Rezza Estily)

An Ahmadiyah community in Tasikmalaya, West Java, was left in shambles on Sunday after hundreds of Islamic hard-line group members destroyed homes in their village.

Asep Taufik Ahmad, a member of the Sukamaju village in the Singaparna subdistrict, said some 400 hard-liners from a mass organization stormed the village at 1 a.m. and damaged dozens of houses belonging to followers of a minority sect of Islam, Ahmadiyah.

“It all started with our decision to hold a Koran recital event to commemorate Isra Mi’raj [the birth of prophet Muhammad]. We already informed the local police about our plan,” Asep told the Jakarta Globe on Sunday.

The police tried to persuade the villagers to not go through with their plan, citing security issues.

“The police said we should cancel the event for our own safety, because a mass organization, I won’t say which one, was apparently unhappy with our activity, but we proceeded anyway because it was a religious activity,” he said.

Some 60 police officers were standing by to secure the event. However, Asep said that hundreds of hardliners came to the village Sunday early Sunday morning and broke past the police barricade.

“The police were outnumbered, everything happened so fast. Suddenly they managed to get into our village and started to attack our houses with stones and sticks while chanting ‘Allahu Akbar’ ['God is great']. There was not much the police could do to stop them, they were totally out of control,” he said, adding that the assailants left the village about two hours later.

“Fortunately there was no fatality or casualty, even though many of our belongings were damaged and people here are still traumatized,” he said.

Tasikmalaya Police chief Sr. Comr. Wijonarko told Indonesian news portal portalkbr.com that the attackers were not only from Tasikmalaya but also from Bandung and Ciamis. He said even though the attackers did not wear any identifying articles, the police believe they were members of the Islamic Defender Front (FPI).

Asep denied reports that the hard-liners set an Ahmadiyah mosque on fire.

Ahamdiyah men have been guarding the village since last night, Asep added.

“We did not have a wink of sleep since last night, we are still too scared because we heard that more hard-liners from Majalengka will come to attack us,” he said.

Asep said on Sunday around 3:00 a.m. that police officers were standing by in the village, but no additional personnel had been deployed since the attack.

Singaparna Police chief Comr. Nono Suyono told Indonesian news portal Detik.com that the police were investigating the attack.

“The case is now being handled by Tasikmalaya Police,” he said.

Previously, hundreds of members of radical Islamic groups on Friday called for “jihad in Myanmar” during rallies in front of the Myanmar embassy in Menteng, Jakarta, to protest growing violence against Rohingya Muslims, another minority sect of Islam.

The FPI, along hundreds of members of the Islamic People Forum (FUI), Jamaah Ansharut Tauhid, Islamic Reformist Movement (Garis), Indonesian Committee for World Muslim Solidarity (Kisdi), Islamic Preaching Council (DDII), Indonesian Muslim Brotherhood Movement (GPMI) and Taruna Muslim (Muslim Youth), marched to the heavily guarded Myanmar embassy on Friday, brandishing banners that read “we want to kill Myanmar Buddhists” and “stop genocide in Myanmar.”

[Correction: A previous version of this article incorrectly stated the time of the attack. Hard-liners came to the village at 1:00 a.m. and destroyed the homes. The Jakarta Globe regrets this error.]

  • Joe90

    enough is enough Mr President SBY. Stand up and take control for once. Stop these radical groups of basically no hope brainwashed kids. The constitution demands it and you are are traitor to the people and the rebublic of Indonesia by standing by and doing nothing.

    • sheldon

      Problem is that due to his inaction, it is obvious that in fact he supports the thugs as does his personally appointed chief of police so nothing is going to chanage

    • petbar

      I fully agree with Joe90. What Mr. SBY should do is fire the police chief in Tasik, send a new chief from Jakarta with a platoon of BRIMOB, rebuilt the Ahmadiyah houses , have Ahmadiya resume their Koran recitals, and shoot to kill any attackers. When he do this one time, may be 10 people killed, these attacks are over.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=657273980 Reville Saw

        put a Batak in charge of police.
        well they will be eventually anyway, a chinese/ batak christian economic domination of jakarta,, and then the archipelago
        wont that be interesting

  • DrDez

    so sad, it really is

  • http://www.facebook.com/groups/Indonesian.Traditional.Cuisine/ AMPD

    And the “Never Ending Story” (Indonesian Version) continues… What’s next?

  • kunri

    I fail to understand why state is helpless in protecting its minorities. In fact I feel Indonesia & Pakistan are the only states sponsoring terrorist activities against minorities. These types of activities have nothing to do with Islam. No doubt why Muslims are loosing respect among developed nations. Until we stop these terrorists we cannot move forward toward progress & be respected.

    • Duncan

      No Kunri infact dozens of other Islamic states are also supporting oppression and violence against its own religious minorities

    • Wonderer

      Very true! Here is how it’s done in Germany: whenever some intolerant nut heads are staging a demo (there are no village raids in countries controled by acceptable governments) 5x the number of normal people would show up and stage a counter demo with banners reading “zero tolerance for intolerance” etc. Under heavy police protection if needed. To make sure the majority is not silent…mostly the nut heads give up or look really silly as a result.

    • Najib

      Some would argue Kunri that it is everything to do with Islam – which is why muslims are loosing respect

  • Roland

    Torches blazed and sacred chants were praised

    As they start to cry hand held to the sky

    In the night the fires are burning bright

    The ritual has begun Satan’s work is done…

    (Iron Maiden – The Number of the Beast)

  • http://dudeinindo.wix.com/beerz#! Muffinman

    ‘They were totally out of control’ . Fits the profile. Must have been terrifying. That’s why they are called terrorists.

  • nugnut

    Hey SBY grow some spine you gutless worm.

    I recall your pathetic speech at the Australian parliament.

    The whimpering “Please don’t blame Islam” plea.

    Its time to stand up for the people that you claim to represent “ALL INDONESIANS”not just your radical little thug friends.

  • JohnEnglish

    One minute they are attacking and Islamic minority group…the next minute they are outside the Mayanmar embassy defending an Islamic minority group! What a bunch of nasty, vicious hypocrites. Seems to me their intention is nothing but to cause unrest. On whose behalf one can only guess. Nonetheless, the weak kneed, lily livered government let them get away with it time after time. Disgusting.

  • Bataviaforever

    Mister President, action NOW !

  • TalkingEid

    Ah the Religion of Peace in action again. No wonder they want Sharia law enforced – no one in their right mind would follow this stone aged cult of violence death and oppression.

  • JC2903

    I feel quite sad each time I read yet another article about religious intolerance that is so obviously being supported in Indonesia. I have never been treated with anything but respect in the many trips I have made to Indonesia, but it seems that this respect is not given to everyone. The frequency with which such events are now occurring makes me feel great sorrow for the unreached great potential that seems to be slipping away.

  • udangdibalikbatu

    most of the average indonesians ( in java ) i speak with do not care at all about the protection of minorities. until these hardline groups start messing with the economy or the middle classes money nothing will change…humans of a minority group come second to money.

    • GypsyMacaque

      Yes, batudiatasudang, up till now, to the middle class :It is still far from my bed show.!

  • GlobalCitizen

    While some citizens were attacked and their house of worship desecrated, SBY went to mount Bromo to watch the sunrise. Here truly is a hopeless leader.

    So the muslim thugs and terrorists want to wage jihad against Myanmar? Yet, they attacked their fellow citizens, regardless of any faith difference. FPI, FUI and other organizations under the disguise of Islam are nothing more than common criminals.

    Since the government is not lifting a finger, I wonder how much longer the oppressed will tolerate before fighting back and wage their own version of jihad.

  • Jaka Bhaskara

    Ahmadiyah members should be protected, just like followers of other religions and beliefs. Their basic rights to worship and dignity restored. Those who abuse them for whatever reasons including religious ones should feel the full force of justice. Shame on the courts and the Police who have been light on those who abuse the Ahmadiyah.

    • DrDez

      Jaka
      I will remind you of your claim that RI is a democracy …

  • GlobalCitizen

    JG, any reason why all my comments lately have never been published?

    [WebEd: Please refer to our comment policy. http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/comment-policy/

    • Good,Bad and Ugly

      2. Ethnic, religious, gender and/or racial slurs and other discriminatory statements
      3. Language that is likely to deeply offend or insult another person such as personal attacks, insults, threats and name-calling
      However JG has a responsibility to defend our right to free speech which takes precedence over insult and mocking. If you are going to err, then it had best be on the side of freedom and ethics.

      • GlobalCitizen

        Thank you for your support. When an issue is politically charged it is to be expected that comments are sharp. Yet, the focus remains with the issue. This is the basis of freedom of speech.

  • blightyboy

    How has it got to this point? Why is this allowed to happen? Have not these people, and many others, been denied their rights under law? So who is to blame for this crime?

  • TeacherAid

    Is anyone really surprised? Having lived in Indonesia, I have witnessed Islamism skyrocket in the last 12 years. The country is going to hell. What a sorry mess.

    • D88

      All my friends who live in Indonesia for over 10 years tell the same story of skyrocketing radicalization. Indonesian friends haven’t noticed it. Why?

      • GlobalCitizen

        Indeed, since SBY assumed leadership (or lack thereof) the radical muslims have been burgeoning like wild mushrooms. State schools in many areas especially Bekasi are requiring students to wear jilbab (head covering) and long dress, compan required to build mushola or mosque on their premises, private banks are setting up shyariah banks, shopping centers, malls and even apartment complexes are required to build musholas, many restaurants are intimidated to buy the ‘halal’ stamp all the way to bottled water and the sound from the ever increasing number of mosques is deafening. Religious intolerance is at all time high. Churches demolished even when the supreme court has said otherwise by citing lack of permit. Indonesia is fast becoming a country full of radicals. Islamic terrorists are increasing in numbers and locations. It is no longer the country I fell in love with.

  • Roland

    Yes, sadly so. Many I speak with are not even really aware of those issues.

  • Alex

    Islam means peace! Hardliners are no muslims! They are criminals! Why the government accepts criminal acts and does nothing to stop those brainwashed criminals?

    • devine

      Alex, you must be joking… They are the real Muslims and the proof is that 95% of so called moderate Muslims stay quite about these things and hence support it…

  • Clearheaded

    Kunri, you stated “I fail to understand why state is helpless in protecting its minorities.” Whilst I agree with this statement and empathize, what I find very hard to understand is even more basic.

    Why is the state so ineffectual and out right criminally negligent in failing to protect it’s own citizens from mass violence and property destruction.

    Irrespective of their religious beliefs, these people are citizens and are entitled to the protection of the law. No person or persons should be held in fear of mob violence at all. There are laws in the land that are there to protect all. Why is the government so ambivalent to applying the law, should be the real question.

    The answer is obvious of course, there is no separation between the Islamic religion and a secular state here. The government and the large majority of the country are Sunni and therefore cannot comprehend that what they do is wrong and illegal. They see this as a duty and that anyone that is not Sunni muslim is fair game.

    This does not apply to all sunni muslims of course, but to those in postions of authority, police, prosecutors, judges, and ministers for various relevant ministries and of course the violent and despicable radical groups. They seem incapable of comprehending the moral obligation that all citizens of the country are entitled to the protection of the law in a modern society.

    As you say DD – so very very sad.

  • Darren1

    Considering that, for centuries, Muslims had lived in relative peace with everyone else, and even accepted Protestants and Jews fleeing persecutions in Catholic Europe, I doubt that Islam is a ‘cult of violence, death and oppression.’ No mention of ‘Islamic terrorism’ until the Cold War. And how many wars of just the 20th century were started by Christian countries and how many by Muslim countries?

    • Botak

      It’s not about what the Christian did or do, and what the Muslims did in the past and do now.

      It’s about the fact that WE are allowing the radical MUSLIMS to do whatever they want in the Name of god, and with this we are violating some basic human rights stated in the Pancasila.

      Article 28E
      (2) Every person shall have the right to the freedom to believe his/her faith and to express his/her views and thoughts, in accordance with his/her conscience.

      Article 28G
      (1) Every person shall have the right to protection of his/herself, family, honor, dignity and property, and shall have the right to feel secure against and receive protection from the threat of fear to do or not do something that is a human right.

      (2) Every person shall have the right to be free from…inhumane and degrading treatment.

      Article 29
      (2) The State guarantees all persons the freedom of worship, each according to his/her own religion or belief.

      We (including me) are allowing with our silence that the radicals are destroying the name of ISLAM. You stated “I doubt that Islam is a ‘cult of violence, death and oppression”. Right, but with our silence it will become one. So instead of arguing (and wasting time) what the bad Christians did and the good Muslims did in the past, some actions from the Indonesian majority Muslims would be good, to stop some nutcases to destroy the whole picture of Islam. “Talk less do more”

      FPI and the other radicals + the so called good Muslims make me feel embarrass being a Muslims, the radicals for their actions and the other Muslims for being ignorant or/ and cowards.

      • Darren1

        I agree. They are two things that need to be done – laws must be enforced and government needs to start spending like crazy on education, Singapore-style. There is no other way in Southeast Asia. People will only change under a gunpoint (figuratively, of course).

        • Duncan

          But the reality is the education system is being dumbed down and the law is not only for sale but biased to the nth degree, in its writing and worse in its application
          In the here and now radical islam is growing rapidly and along with it growing violence v minorities and each other

          • GypsyMacaque

            You ain’t seen nothing yet!
            Will get worst.

        • MadWorld

          That’s the way I like it.

      • Fuad Nurhadi

        Sorry to break the news for you, the so called silent majority in Indonesia now is not moderate. 70% of Muslims in Indonesia support the imposition of Sharia, according to the latest Pew research. Just like in Pakistan. I am sad for my relatives who are left to live in this fast-becoming-like-stupid-Saudi Arabia country. There are no more leaders like Sukarno, Hatta, Agus Salim, Kartini. Instead you have corrupt hypocrites like SBY and his PKS doppelgängers.

        • GypsyMacaque

          The majority of islam take part in the hypocrisy of silence.
          The blind saw it.
          The deaf heard it.
          The mute have spoken.

    • TalkingEid

      Darren – try living in the here and now – instead of some illusory ‘golden age’. Ask any minority in any Muslim majority nation TODAY how they feel about the ‘religion of peace’.

      • Darren1

        None of the people around the world feel comfortable living in countries where they a minority. I am sure blacks and Mexicans get discriminated against in the U.S.; immigrant minorities get harassed in Germany; non-whites often get harassed and even attacked in Russia. Perhaps BOTH Muslims and non-Muslims need to clean up their acts.

        • TalkingEid

          Darren1 – I understand you want to be an apologist for Islamic violence – but are you seriously suggesting that in the USA blacks Mexicans get treated the way non-muslim religious minorities do in Asia and Africa?

          Try to keep in touch with reality.

        • TalkingEid

          Darren1 – I understand you want to be an apologist for Islamic violence – but are you seriously suggesting that in the USA blacks Mexicans get treated the way non-muslim religious minorities do in Asia and Africa?

          Try to keep in touch with reality.

        • TalkingEid

          Darren1 – I understand you want to be an apologist for Islamic violence – but are you seriously suggesting that in the USA blacks Mexicans get treated the way non-muslim religious minorities do in Asia and Africa?

          Try to keep in touch with reality.

        • TalkingEid

          Darren1 – I understand you want to be an apologist for Islamic violence – but are you seriously suggesting that in the USA blacks Mexicans get treated the way non-muslim religious minorities do in Asia and Africa?

          Try to keep in touch with reality.

        • TalkingEid

          Darren1 – I understand you want to be an apologist for Islamic violence – but are you seriously suggesting that in the USA blacks Mexicans get treated the way non-muslim religious minorities do in Asia and Africa?

          Try to keep in touch with reality.

        • TalkingEid

          Darren1 – I understand you want to be an apologist for Islamic violence – but are you seriously suggesting that in the USA blacks Mexicans get treated the way non-muslim religious minorities do in Asia and Africa?

          Try to keep in touch with reality.

        • TalkingEid

          Darren1 – I understand you want to be an apologist for Islamic violence – but are you seriously suggesting that in the USA blacks Mexicans get treated the way non-muslim religious minorities do in Asia and Africa?

          Try to keep in touch with reality.

          • Darren1

            I do not ‘apologize’ for any kind of violence, I am simply saying that both Muslims and non-Muslims are always ready to sweep their atrocities and injustices under the carpet. Look at this thread – I asked a provocative question about the number of Christian wars vs. Muslim wars, and everyone on the forum who replied avoided the direct answer.

          • Botak

            The direct answer is very difficult to be answered. Despite the crusader time and the 30 year war 1600 in Europe the most wars didn’t had anything to do with religion. Napoleon, 1st and 2nd WW. Serbia etc. It always was different agendas. Crazy dictators, greed etc.

            Adolf Hitler and also the communists actually deleted religion from their agenda. The Iraq invasion from the NATO had nothing to do with religion.

            And even times before, the Ottomans or Suleiman, was doing wars for greed of land not religion.

            The only 2 wars I could say which had to do with religion and done by the Christians are the crusade and the 30 year war in Europe.

            How many wars did our Prophet Mohammad followed to spread Islam?

          • TalkingEid

            You don’t regard the Moorish invasion of Europe as a ‘war’ then Botak? Or the islamic invasion of the whole of the Middle East and large parts of Asia? Perhaps you think that Islam somehow just ‘appeared’ in such places as India, Judea, Egypt………..

          • Botak

            Every invasion is a war. I was answering the question related to religious wars. Darren1 asked “Christians-wars” vs “Muslims-wars”

            The Moorish invasion of Europe hadn’t much to do with Islam. The Europeans wasn’t forced to convert.

            I said the most wars happened of reasons other than religions. Humans was seeking for power, land etc.Religion is widely used to excuse behavior and give reasons.

            And If you would read properly, my last sentences was a questions asking “How many wars did our Prophet Mohammad followed to spread Islam?”. That should answer that I don’t think that Islam somehow just appeared in such places as India, Judea, Egypt….

          • Darren1

            Even during the Muslim rule, all three religions co-existed quite peacefully in those places.

          • Darren1

            What about the European colonizations of North and South America? Those were done in the name of “God, Glory and Gold”. Religion was still part of the equation.

            Even though most of the wars you’ve mentioned had nothing to do with religion. they were all started by countries and people who considered themselves Christian. Yes, Adolph Hitler and the communists weren’t even Christians, although Communism is a type of religion.

          • Botak

            For the English was in for the “King, Glory & England”. As you said “Glory & Gold”

            Religion is widely used to excuse behavior and give reasons. Sometimes also to motivate. Especially when 1000 Spanish Soldiers are facing 30.000 Incas. But honest speaking do you think that any of these Kings or Generals gave a thing about God. They was after Gold and Glory, and not to meet God.

          • 22roles

            Cause they are bias mate.. Good on you to ask hard question.

        • TalkingEid

          Darren1 – I understand you want to be an apologist for Islamic violence – but are you seriously suggesting that in the USA blacks Mexicans get treated the way non-muslim religious minorities do in Asia and Africa?

          Try to keep in touch with reality.

        • TalkingEid

          Darren1 – I understand you want to be an apologist for Islamic violence – but are you seriously suggesting that in the USA blacks Mexicans get treated the way non-muslim religious minorities do in Asia and Africa?

          Try to keep in touch with reality.

        • TalkingEid

          Darren1 – I understand you want to be an apologist for Islamic violence – but are you seriously suggesting that in the USA blacks Mexicans get treated the way non-muslim religious minorities do in Asia and Africa?

          Try to keep in touch with reality.

        • TalkingEid

          Darren1 – I understand you want to be an apologist for Islamic violence – but are you seriously suggesting that in the USA blacks Mexicans get treated the way non-muslim religious minorities do in Asia and Africa?

          Try to keep in touch with reality.

        • TalkingEid

          Darren1 – I understand you want to be an apologist for Islamic violence – but are you seriously suggesting that in the USA blacks Mexicans get treated the way non-muslim religious minorities do in Asia and Africa?

          Try to keep in touch with reality.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=657273980 Reville Saw

          blacks in USA are not a minority. go look at your numbers noddy

    • Voxclara

      Darren1, you should read up on the real histories instead of relying on Hollywood’s many versions. Then you should also read up on Islam. When you do, you will never make such comment again.

      • Darren1

        Thanks for mentioning ‘real histories,’ Voxclara. I majored in history during my undergraduate years, and I can provide you with loads of academic references on Islamic history. Where
        should I start? Hmm…

        “Christianity has largely misunderstood the nature of
        Islamic militancy. The fiction that Islam was preached by the sword and Christianity by the lamb and the dove appeared early in Christian writings, and still exercises a powerful influence upon the popular perception of Islam. Christian polemics were quick to contrast the idealized life of Christ
        with that of Muhammad and his followers. In fact, as we have seen, the first Arab conquests of Syria, Egypt and Iraq were not motivated by religious fanaticism, but by a political ambition
        for Arab integration”.

        Source: McManners, J. (1993). The Oxford illustrated history
        of Christianity / edited by John McManners. Oxford ; New York : Oxford University Press, 1992. ISBN: 0-19-285259-0

        • Voxclara

          Darren1, thnks 4 the reply. I can also provide loads of academic papers that will debunk McManners.

          Historian Bernard Lewis: [For almost a thousand years ... Europe was under constant threat. In the early centuries it was a double threat—not only of invasion and conquest, but also of conversion and assimilation. All but the easternmost provinces of the Islamic realm had been taken from Christian rulers, and the vast majority of the first Muslims west of Iran and Arabia were converts from Christianity. North Africa, Egypt, Syria, even Persian-ruled Iraq, had been Christian countries, in which Christianity was older and more deeply rooted than in most of Europe. Their loss was sorely felt and heightened the fear that a similar fate was in store for Europe.]

          Was Islam spread by the sword? The best is to go to those who base their research not just on historical records but on the all important Islamic sources.

          Here is one:
          http://www.answering-islam.org/Terrorism/by_the_sword.html

          • Darren1

            You gotta be kidding me, Voxclara. You consider
            history-world.org and answering-islam.org to be academic sources? Seriously? Have you actually Read the Gosh Darn Thing, i.e. “Islam and the West” by Dr. Bernard Lewis, or were you simply too happy to read a small excerpt out of
            his 217-page book and tell me you’ve read an academic source? I’ve actually borrowed the whole thing from a
            library. Let me quote p. 136, something your websites ‘forgot’ to mention:

            “In the eighteenth century, under the impact of Austrian and Russian victories against Turkey and British successes in India, Muslims were becoming aware that they were no
            longer the dominant power in the world but were, on the contrary, threatened in their heartlands by a Europe that was expanding at both ends.”

            So who was threatened here – Europe or the Muslim world?

          • Botak

            The early Muslims produced great mathematicians and scientists, scholars, physicians and astronomers etc. and they excelled in all the fields of knowledge of their times, besides studying and practicing their own religion of Islam. As a result the Muslims were able to develop and extract wealth from their lands and through their world trade, able to strengthen their defenses, protect their people and give them the Islamic way of life, Addin, as prescribed by Islam. At the time the Europeans of the Middle Ages were still superstitious and backward, the enlightened Muslims had already built a great Muslim civilization, respected and powerful, more than able to compete with the rest of the world and able to protect the ummah from foreign aggression. The Europeans had to kneel at the feet of Muslim scholars in order to access their own scholastic heritage.

            But halfway through the building of the great Islamic civilization came new interpreters of Islam who taught that acquisition of knowledge by Muslims meant only the study of Islamic theology. The study of science, medicine etc. was discouraged.

            Intellectually the Muslims began to regress. With intellectual regression the great Muslim civilization began to falter and wither. But for the emergence of the Ottoman warriors, Muslim civilization would have disappeared with the fall of Granada in 1492.

            The early successes of the Ottomans were not accompanied by an intellectual renaissance. Instead they became more and more preoccupied with minor issues such as whether tight trousers and peak caps were Islamic, whether printing machines should be allowed or electricity used to light mosques. The Industrial Revolution was totally missed by the Muslims.

            Nowadays the Muslims are providing the perfect example of the way of thinking responsible for the poverty, repression and strife endemic to the Islamic world.

            They speak about the “humiliation and oppression” suffered by Muslims at the hands of non-Muslims and the need for Muslims to “regain their dignity.” The inability to accept responsibility and the need to see every set-back and frustration as an affront to honor inflicted by Islam’s perceived enemies is pervasive, juvenile and crippling. In an individual it would be symptomatic of pathological insecurity.

            Yet where in the non-Islamic world to Muslims face the discrimination experienced by non-Muslims in Islamic countries? If Muslims find themselves condemned as terrorists, perhaps it is because so many of them have embarked upon killing innocents in the name of their God. And if, throughout the world, they find themselves unable to live peaceably with their non-Islamic neighbors, perhaps the fault lies within.

            The primary enemy is, of course, “the Jews.” Antisemitism has become part and parcel of Islam and entirely ignores the fact that the Arab-Israeli conflict continues to exist, not because of Jewish designs upon Islamic lands, but because a substantial majority of Muslims aspire to the eradication of the Jewish state. But the Jews are not the only enemies of Islam, in the eyes of the mainstream Muslims, Islam’s enemies include pretty much the whole non-Islamic world, or at least those parts of it that have to misfortune to abut or interact with the ummah.

            Their insistence on identifying plots and conspiracies and enemies, their excusing of Muslim aggression as defense, is a manifestation of the disease that consigns Islamic society to the world’s sickbed. In nearly every instance, Muslims could peaceable co-exist with their neighbors were they to resolve to live peaceably.

            Sadly, live-and-let-live, is not an tenet of Islam. That the most Muslims are not able to understand this, does not bode well for the future.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=657273980 Reville Saw

            because they translated greek, persian, carthaginian and egyptian texts from the rubble of their pillage. Not one advance to humanity has come out of Islamic culture in 1000 years

          • GypsyMacaque

            The problem with Islam, mutantur omnia nos et mutamur in illis!
            ( All things change, and,we change with them)
            Islam adheres to the 7th century tradition of the yew, christian & arab that precedes the Quran(hadith) & to the revised, re-edited words of the Prophet(sunnah) that were compiled 100 years after his demise.
            Back to the camel marketing strategy.

          • Roland

            @Botak – very interesting – and IMHO you pretty much nailed it.

          • Voxclara

            Darren1, McManners’ or Lewish’s opinions are unsupported by historical facts. The two links I provided use Islamic sources – the Koran. Your version has been peddled by Islamic apologists ad nauseum for decades and sadly many have accepted it as the truth never mind that it isn’t supported by history. If you aren’t a Muslim then you are perpetuating the dhimmitute. Sad really.

          • GypsyMacaque

            I thought I read it somewhere.

            In 988 A.D. prince Vladimir of Kiev ,whose kingdom in now modern Russia, decided that his kingdom should be united under a single religion. He send emissaries to the yews, Moslim Arab, the Christians, requesting the details of their faiths. According to The Russian Chronicle, Vladimir listened to all of them. The Moslim believe in One God, circumcised, no pork,No alcohol and would enjoy the carnal embraces of over 70 women in paradise. Vladimir loves the women,but the abstinence of pork & especially wine was too much to bear.

            Drinking he said, is the joy of the Russian.
            Vladimir chose Christianity, and Islam lost a religious ally.
            The Dark ages of Europe were over,& European started to push islam out of the continent. From Spain Islam was pushed out of Europe, 1085 Normans took Sicily etc .
            Europe was freed of Islam because of alcohol debacle.

          • Voxclara

            The contention here is whether Islam was spread by the sword. You either agree or disagree. You disagree. Your position is not supported by history or Islamic sources (their scriptures and records) it is untenable.

            You dismiss works that base their conclusions on both historical records and Islamic record which prove beyond any doubt that Islam was spread by the sword. You ignore the large bodies of evidence that prove the violent and militancy of Muhammed and his followers in spreading Islam. You ignore the many violent verses that contained in the Koran.

            So I shall end the discussion here as obviously you aren’t interested in the truth. You are perpetuating dhimmitute if you are non Muslim. If you are a Muslim then you are practicing Taqyya, the Islamic deception which is sanctioned by the Koran. And reading your many comments, you most probably are a Muslim.

          • Darren1

            I am quite amused that you are accusing me of Islamic deception. None of the sources I have presented so far are Muslim. I can even present you with Christian (and Hindu) sources confirming that Islam was not spread by a sword and that Muslims and non-Muslims have peacefully lived for centuries. If you don’t like newer (‘apologetic’) sources, I can mention older ones written in the 40s and 60s.

            You are accusing me of ignorance of violent verses in the Koran, yet you yourself have completely ignored the violent ones in the Bible. Example: http://www.evilbible.com

          • Darren1

            “You dismiss works that base their conclusions on both historical records and Islamic record which prove beyond any doubt that Islam was spread by the sword”

            You have not even presented me with any academic works that prove anything ‘beyond any doubt’. You are quoting religious (Christian) sources, while I am quoting professional academic (non-religious) sources, and then you are accusing me of ignorance.

            Here is a hypothetical situation. Let’s say your car broke down due to a manufacturer’s defect, and you are suing him for damages. You need an expert to prove, in a court, that the manufacturer is at fault. Whom are you going to hire – an automotive engineer or a Chinese chef? No doubt, you will hire an engineer. However, on this forum, you are using non-expert sources, trying to prove your point of view. If you bring a Chinese chef to the court, you will get laughed at, and your case will be dismissed.

          • Darren1

            The ‘all-important Islamic sources’ can be written by anyone, and often contradict each other. Who wrote them? Which Islamic school did they belong to? Those do not count as academic sources, as they are often biased.

            In his other work, “Islam: The Religion and the People,” Dr. Bernard Lewis actually says the following:

            “Muslim fighters are commanded not to kill women, children, or the aged unless they attack first; not to torture or otherwise ill-treat prisoners; to give fair warning of the opening of hostilities or their resumption after a truce; and to
            honor agreements… At no time did the classical jurists offer any approval or legitimacy to what we nowadays call terrorism. Nor indeed is there any evidence of the use of terrorism as it is practiced nowadays.” (p.151).

            Source: Lewis, Bernard, and Buntzie Ellis Churchill.
            2009. Islam: the religion and the people. Indianapolis: Wharton Press.

        • Voxclara

          Darren1, I think McManners didn’t know much about Islam for him to conclude that it was arabization not islamization. These terms carry the same meaning. Arabization equals to Islamization.

          Here is another link, Islam From The Beginning To 1300

          http://history-world.org/islam4.htm

          Part of the paragraph 1, [...since Muhammad himself had successfully established the new faith through conversion and conquest of those who stood against him.]

  • DrDEz

    100%

  • Duncan

    Alex

    And the 100,000 currently laying siege to Dhaka – in Bangladesh demanding all sorts of Sharia based laws, and who are currently on something of a killing spree whilst shouting god is great…… are they not muslims too?

  • Good,Bad and Ugly

    If the Rohinga of Burma were in Indonesia the FPI would attack them as they do the Ahmads. The Roh are also Sufi-Sunni.

  • Voxclara

    Alex, Islam doesn’t mean peace. The uneducated claims that the word Islam is derived from al-Salaam, which is peace in Arabic. But the truth is the word Islam is derived from al-Silm, which means submission or surrender, and there is no disagreement among the Islamic scholars on this point. So Islam means total submission to Allah.

    The hardliners you refer to are in fact good Muslims because they follow the examples of Muhammed, who is regarded as the most perfect example of a man by Muslim.

  • I. Leo

    We have a President? News to me.

  • 22roles

    Coming down fast and hard on these thugs will the only option and to enforce rule of law is the key to stop these maniacs.As long as Indonesia refuses to bring up FPI issues on ASEAN level, most of their members learn not only from Saudi but southern Thailand, Malaysia , southern Philippines as well, this will happen again and again .

    • DrDez

      SBY calls them his brothers, the administration fail to act, the FPI are not Malay or Thai or Filipino influenced – they are influenced by Saudi and mores so by the Indonesians that go there – People who you defend and worship daily it seems.
      You are deflecting from the real issue which is the state sponsorship of radical Islam, and the champion of that is your hero SBY

      • Dirk

        Dez, please create a Disqus account so I can follow your comments!

  • Darren1

    1. You are the one who provided me with an ‘academic’ reference quoting Lewis, and now you are telling me his opinions are unsupported by facts.

    2. Have you actually READ either Lewis or McManners? There are tons of historical facts in both books. Here is one from Lewis:

    “For centuries, however, most of southeastern Europe remained under Turkish rule, while Turkish fleets dominated the eastern and menaced the western Mediterranean. All Europe was keenly aware of the threat that hung over it. As far away as Iceland the Lutheran prayer book included a prayer beseeching God to “save us from the evil designs of the Pope and the terror of the Turk.” The latter, at least, was no idle fear. Iceland’s historians and poets had much to say about a raid of Barbary corsairs, who descended upon their coasts in 1627 and carried off hundreds of captives to the slave markets of Algiers.” (p.74 of “Islam and the West” by Lewis)

    Sounds like a clear historical fact to me. Would you bother to say this is unsupported by historical facts? Perhaps, you are now going to claim that, for centuries, Turks HAD NOT dominated most of southeastern Europe?

  • Darren1

    So you are saying that they pillaged Greek, Persia, Carthaginian and Egyptian texts, then they magically learned those languages and became great translators? What about just one scholar, Avicenna, who wrote several hundred treatises on philosophy and medicine, many of which were actually used in European medieval universities? Greeks never did much on medicine, simply because they considered a human body sacred and not to be cut apart and studied.

    There weren’t many places to even get those texts, except in the Library of Alexandria, which had undergone several destructions even before Muslims got there in 7th century A.D. First, Caesar burned it in 48 BCE (accidentally, by many accounts). Then, it was damaged by the Roman emperor Aurelian in the 3rd century A.D. After that, another Roman emperor, Theodosius, in his Christian zeal against pagans, ordered it destroyed in 391. Muslims were the ones who actually saved the remaining stuff before translating it and adding lots of material on their own.

  • Darren1

    In 2011, the population of African Americans including those of more than one race was estimated at 43.9 million, making up 13.6% of the total U.S. population.

    That’s from a U.S. government source ( http://www.cdc.gov/minorityhealth/populations/REMP/black.html )

    Get your facts straight, dude.

  • Darren1

    Prophet Muhammad didn’t go to India, Judea or Egypt. In his lifetime, only the Arabian Peninsula became Muslim.

  • GypsyMacaque

    This incidence show The Sunni radical demand the exclusivity of the moral virtue and demand the sole right to destroy other believe & property.
    This incidence show the dismal failure of the Indonesian government (As quoted by Botak, in this issue,the Pancacila human rights, Thank you Sir) to protect it’s citizen.
    This incidence show that Republic Indonesia is A BANANA republic.

  • GypsyMacaque

    This incidence show THE (Sunni) radical demand the exclusivity of the moral virtues, claim the sole rights to destroy other’s believe & property.
    This incidence show the dismal incapabilities of the Indonesian democratic law ( as quoted by Botak in this article,the basic human rights in Pancacila, thank you Sir), to protect the rights of its citizen.
    This incidence show that Republic Indonesia is a BANANA REPUBLIC.

  • Darren1

    Perhaps it is this Russian obsession with alcohol that has resulted in that country having such a low life expectancy rate (69.85 years, lower than Indonesia). Doesn’t seem that the alcohol debate turned out in Russia’s favor…

    And if Europe was freed of Islam, MadWorld, do you mind explaining why Europe was not happy with their ‘victory’ over Islam and began colonizing the rest of the world, including non-Muslim Americas? Why not stay in their warm and ‘civilized’ European part of the world?

    • MadWorld

      Rightly so Darren, the russian are obsessed by alcohol, resulting in low life expectancy.

      There are 2 words to describe the colonization of the New world by EU, greed & christianization. Almost all the new world are rich in resources, in the beginning it was agricultural products, spices, tobacco, sugar, rubber etc, nowadays added to all mentioned, oil & gas, diamonds, precious metals, etc.

      This imperialism is also changing, in the early days, the adage was ;” In the name of the Queen/King, I now pronounced this land is mine”(sic). Nowadays are Multinationals, as the name suggest,a conglomerate of multi ethnicity & multi religion.

      This business kartel do not evangelize anymore, secular, their God is Money. Money do the talking.

      But there is a trend that bothers me, ethically.

      Over the past 3 decades Saudis, through private funds,funded madrassas & Wahhabism (a radical teaching of Sunni), churning thousands of half-wit fanatical scholars, as an export commodity. This money fascism ignores secularism, ignores other religions, ignores existing cultures,food & local dress-code.This is an on going epidemic of radicalism of the sunni islam. The catholic has a pope in Vatican. The sunni has no universally obeyed hierarchy , so the watering hole of this radical sect is the money provided by the saudis. The secular Saudis owes it’s position to the oil & or to connection with the Ruling Royal family.

      This is feudalism, not capitalism( certainly not multinational & multi religion conglomerate).

      All things change & we change with them.,Excepting the radicalisation of Sunni, back to the middle-ages way of thinking.