The Thinker: Prabowo-Jokowi?

No Indonesian political figure has a higher presidential electability rating than Joko Widodo and Prabowo Subianto. In a survey conducted in April by the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), Jokowi and Prabowo topped all the lists.

Jokowi would get 35.1 percent and Prabowo 16.3 percent if the elections were contested by seven candidates and Jokowi would get 40.9 percent against Prabowo’s 19.3 percent if four candidates were to take part.

But that’s just what pollsters say. Politics is full of probabilities. Many analysts have over time been proven wrong in their predictions and even the most unexpected sometimes becomes reality. Jokowi won the gubernatorial elections in Jakarta, even though incumbent Fauzi Bowo had the backing of political heavyweights and plenty of funds.

Despite an ongoing campaign against him, Prabowo’s popularity still ranks higher than that of most presidential candidates. For the common people, Prabowo seems to be an ideal choice when compared with his rivals, who barely manage to get the support of 10 percent.

But Jokowi and Prabowo can’t become presidential candidates yet. Jokowi doesn’t want to be nominated. Besides, his party boss Megawati Sukarnoputri, chairwoman of the Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDI-P), still wants to run for president herself.

Prabowo, although his Great Indonesia Movement Party (Gerindra) nominated him as a presidential candidate, still needs to meet the threshold requirement of 20 percent of seats in parliament or 25 percent of the national vote. He may have to forge a coalition with other political parties, but Gerindra is trying hard to expand its voter base.

Only the ruling Democratic Party, the Golkar Party and the PDI-P would likely be able to nominate presidential candidates without forming a coalition. The Democrats have no candidate for the moment but look forward to a party convention soon to name one. That could be Trade Minister Gita Wirjawan.

[quote author=]If Megawati is smart, she doesn’t run — as she would surely lose. She would be better off as a kingmaker.[/quote]

Golkar is firm with Aburizal Bakrie as its presidential candidate while the PDI-P sticks to its decision that only Megawati can run.

But in politics, nothing is certain. Who knows what would happen if Jokowi and Prabowo indeed get the nomination. If Megawati is smart, she doesn’t run — as she would surely lose. She would be better off as a kingmaker and nominate Jokowi as the PDI-P’s candidate for president. Or forge a coalition once again with Gerindra to nominate Prabowo. Or perhaps even propose a Prabowo-Jokowi ticket. As for the Democrats, President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono surely can be a kingmaker, too. He knows no Democrat can match Prabowo’s popularity and might as well initiate a Democratic Party-Gerindra coalition.

Both Jokowi and Prabowo are nationalists who support the common people. Jokowi wants to promote education, health, housing and welfare while Prabowo sides primarily with the rural community, fishermen, farmers and cooperatives. Many believe that Prabowo represents a new hope in a country where corruption is rampant and present in all institutions and levels of administration.

Political analyst Indria Samego has said that Prabowo has a better chance to become a presidential candidate than other former military figures such as Sutiyoso, Wiranto, Endriartono Sutarto or even Yudhoyono’s in brother-in-law Pramono Edhie Wibowo. He also said that the perception of Prabowo as a strong leader boosts his chances.

There is no perfect president. Indonesia has since independence been led by Sukarno, Suharto, B.J. Habibie, Abdurrahman Wahid, Megawati Sukarnoputri and Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. Each has had pluses and minuses. However, their proven achievements must be preserved and their mistakes must never be repeated.

Whoever wins the presidency in 2014, the interests of the people — justice, welfare, self-sufficiency and economic sovereignty — must become the top priority.

Yanto Soegiarto is the managing editor of Globe Asia, a sister publication of the Jakarta Globe.

  • Tatanka

    I might be crazy in saying this, but if Prabowo can be a firm leader (and hopefully has repented himself such that he would respect human rights) he might end up being a good president for Indonesia, when coupled with Jokowi. I, for one, more and more feel pessimistic that most Indonesian people are actually ready for full-fledged democracy. In reality most of them cannot tell the difference between democracy and anarchy. Thus, Indonesia needs a firm hand as its leader such that thugs, terrorists, criminals, and those trouble-makers will be dealt with swiftly, including islamic thugs and islamic terrorists. So far, most problems in Indonesia including all the social ills can be directly and indirectly attributed to the so-called radical and fanatic islamic thugs and they need to be eradicated from Indonesia to bring back the sense of calmness and peace. After all, what foreign investors would be willing to bring in technology and the funds associated therewith when they feel there is no protection. Further, a firm hand is needed to get rid of those lazy and idiotic people’s representatives. In fact, the entire people’s representative council should be disbanded and the nice, big buildings they occupy can be turned into national museum, international university or international convention center while their manicured lawn can be turned into a park. Jokowi can take the leadership in embracing the common citizens while at the same time be the voice of conscience to Prabowo. Jokowi alone will not succeed without the backing of a strong hand, particularly when the people’s representatives do not have the welfare of the nation in their minds. So far, they are all too pre-occupied with lining their own pockets and tackling each other in order to better position themselves to raid the cookie jar and steal the hard-earned tax dollars. So, call me crazy but that’s how I feel. the strongest democracy is the one rooted in the society from bottom up and not top down. The current educational level (and system) cannot support full-fledged democracy (thanks to the ministry of education, ministry of religion, ministry of home affairs and ministry of health who have directly and personally destroyed the foundation of decency in Indonesia.

    Prabowo-Jokowi can start by dissolving the ministry of religion. The state ideology is Pancasila and the constitution calls for separation of government and religion. Thus, the government must not be involved with religion at all. The mere existence of the ministry of religion is already a violation of the constitution. People want to complete their pilgrimage to Mekkah? Turn it over to professional travel agencies. Have proper licensing issued to qualified agencies and let them take care of the pilgrims such that they would no longer be subjected to the cheating by the ministry of religion while at the same time they can avoid being served stale rice and bad meat.

    Establish the minimum core curriculum for all schools in Indonesia such that those not meeting the minimum standard should be closed down. This will eliminate the so called bad pesantrens from being the breeding ground for terrorists.

    Establish good city plan and zoning law such that residential area remains as the name implies. People should have the right to private enjoyment so that they can rest peacefully (and thus increase the quality of life). Mosques and Musholas must maintain certain distance from residential district and the volume of speakers must be controlled so that people can actually enjoy their home, they can rest peacefully and the children can study well without all the blaring and annoying noise.

    Establish a policy that regardless of the name of any legitimate religion, let them build their house of worship without having to get signatures from people living in the area (what are those signatures for anyway, they can be bought!). Regardless of any religion and denomination, they must follow the city plan and zoning law so that each house of worship must provide parking lot for cars and motorcycles based on the capacity of the house of worship. Traffic will be significantly improved and accidents will go down dramatically.

    Establish a policy whereby each multiple dwelling units such as condominiums, townhouses, apartments, etc. and shopping malls must provide ample parking place. No more wild and illegal parking on the streets.

    Bring back the sense of community and encourage all citizens to participate in maintaining clean and orderly neighborhood and environment. They can form gotong-royong team for the beautification of their neighborhood.

    Get rid of all kind of premanism, including at street corners, intersections, parking areas, industrial complex, etc. They serve no purpose other than terrorizing common citizens. Visualize businesses that can have more efficient transportation and logistics without having to be pressured by those mafia-style thugs.

    Implement total separation between government and religion such that MUI can no longer strong-arming food and beverage industry by requiring them to have halal label. After all MUI has no laboratories to test anything and is not in the position to issue such label. All MUI is doing is nothing but selling stickers in the name of religion. Indonesia must embrace pluralistic society. Never allow any single religion to force anything down anyone’s throat. Enough is enough with all the stupid religious intolerance! Enough with all the violence using the shield of religion (islam). The real Islam (with capital) does not condone violence and intolerance. Anyone embracing intolerance and violence is not muslim, and they are nothing but common criminal which should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. In fact, they are an embarrassment to Islam. Ibu Tin Suharto built Taman Mini in which she proudly placed different houses of worship side by side.

    Fix customs, transportation system, infrastructure and people’s welfare. Establish clear, transparent and efficient business climate. There should be no excuse why a business registration must take more than 3 months. Make it easier for foreign investors to enter and do business in Indonesia. Indonesia is a tropical climate and is blessed with richness of natural resources. There should be no reason for Indonesia to import rice, sugarcane-based sugar, vegetables (remember garlic and shallots?), fruits, etc.

    Introduce death penalty to all corruptors following proper judicial system after confiscating their ill-gotten assets. Further, anyone with criminal record including corruption must be barred from entering politics and from being government officials.

    All and all, there is a lot to do and as such only someone with a firm hand can make progress. Otherwise, so much time is wasted for political wrangling, tackling, childish and idiotic behavior of those so called people’s representatives. Just get rid of this foolish institution. There is not much time for laziness, arrogance and inaction. Otherwise, soon Indonesia, destined for greatness, will be passed by Malaysia, Vietnam and even Myanmar which will be a travesty.

    • Ooops

      Sad to say many people (regular Indonesians) are moving towards (backwards) to what Prabowo offers because of failings within the corrupt and radicalized administration – Personally I would think Indonesia would be better off as a series of independent states than having a monster at the helm

      • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

        The DPR would never let it get broken up, too many different pies and just as many fingers want their taste.

  • Wong Edan

    “If Megawati is smart, she doesn’t run — as she would surely lose.” Isn’t anybody checking this stuff?

  • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

    It does seem like a dream team and I know I would like to se it form and take place, with Jokowi as a VP he could not be shoved around for trying to doing the right like he is now.

    • Wong Edan

      You want Prabowo as president? Seriously? Don’t you care about what happened in 1998?

      • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

        Yes I do, I was here during the May 98 riots, the riots started on Wednesday morning and went onwards throughout the day and all the way in to Friday morning late. I went out driving around various parts of the city early Friday morning to see the carnage for myself because I figured that they would not do anything on the hold day of pray but might start back up after prayer. Sure enough I see quite a few stragglers heading home from a night of plunder and carnage but not many other moving so it was quite easy to drive around the streets.

        I care about what happend but I also am aware of why the carnage took place and why a specific ethnic group was targeted. I am not going to argue right or wrong with you here but I know how and why some certain individuals were targeted and they made their bed and then they got to sleep in the bed.

        It has never been proven one way or another if Prabowo was behind that riot because all we have rumors but if you have specific proof then please present it on your favorite news channel and prove to the people Prabowo is not worthy.

        • MadWorld

          Tell me why the carnage happened. Surely driving will be easier, no traffic jam etc, those who drives to see the carnage should be taken into the psychiatric hospital ( Grogol??)

          • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

            Why did it happen someone planned and organized it and most of the blame has been put on Prabowo. The first place that I know they hit about 10am that Wednesday morning was Glodok Plaza, first they looted it then they set it on fire. I was still in my office at work when my colleagues (almost all Indonesians and some Expats abandon their desks and ran home when they were released by management at lunch time. Me I work and I hold pride in my work and the amount of work I could accomplish so I kept on working until I got a call from my better half who worked at the Coke office on Sudirman back then and needed a ride home. So I went over to Sudirman around 2:30pm Wednesday and the kids were runnimg wild in the streets just starting to attack cars and offices, I found my mate and we tool off homeward bound and laid low, we had it good in that case, at the time we lived on Jl. Lobi-Lobi in Kalibata and our house was near the main road and only 300 meters from the BIN (the Indonesian version of the CIA) office and nobody screwed around in our neighborhood..

            .Call me curious, the only feed of the real events for those 2 days of rioting on the ground was coming via Indovision from CNN and I was quite sure of myself and my judgements then and now, the rioters were not going to do anything extraordinary on the holy day of prayer, back then the rioters were not that ruthless in Jakarta Central and Jakarta Selatan but today no I would not do the same thing the peoples attitude has changed and they would stab you for an extra 100,000. .

            Quite ironic considering your handle but it explains your familiarity with the Grogol establishment but I am sure by the time I check in there I will not be lonely as there will already be a MadWorld there to keep me company.

          • MadWorld

            Love your explanation, you know why?
            I used to live in Indonesia, seen & experienced the feeding frenzy of 1965(?), my father was a Doctor work for the Unicef, got picked up by the military everyday at approximately 06.00 am, no body knows where or when he will be home. As a child this memories keep on haunting me, burning houses, carnage,friends killed, disappeared, a family raped ……I did not need to explain father’s story what he saw in the villages.
            My home was not ransacked because Indonesian slept on the porch to prevent it. I almost puked when trying to see, ” The act of killing by Yoshua Oppenheimer”.
            And now it is 2013, it seems the moslim still have the appetite to kill,to violate,to cause havoc.
            I will share Grogol just to be with a friend .

        • rustynails

          Yes, that specific group definately need to suffer gang rapes and murder including under age girls? I feel the need to throw up, we have learned nothing.

    • TalkingEid

      Any team with Prabowo is a nightmare, not a dream.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

    That is true I did use a wide brush but I at the beginning of that fateful Wednesday that the plan was to go after certain individuals that had been taking advantage primarially of the Pre-Bumi population, then s the ay went on and other rioters joined in the word got passed around and these rioters just targeted the one particular ethinic group because they could..

    • TalkingEid

      Rather like the Nazi party targeted the Jews for Germany’s economic woes.

  • LadyBuggers

    You has got to be kidding me! You APPROVE of that human rights violator to be the president? You called him a nationalist? What nationalist slay their own countrymen? What nationalist used his influence to spark a riot just to show what would happen if his father in law were to be ousted? Are you even here in Jakarta during those days? Have you never heard of the atrocious Operasi Seroja in East Timor?
    Your writings as an editor have always amaze me, but this tops it all! You are definitely blind and deaf to what is happening in Indonesia, so stop writing as if you knew

    • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

      Prabowo never violated my human rights nor has it ever been shown he violated anyone’s human rights his reputation runs more on rumors for some to hold an individual accountable.I would compare it to how the US invaded Iraq for the 9/11 attack yet Saddam did not have anything to do with 9/11. The US citizens had to hold someone accountable and Saddam was it. Here some have to hold someone accountable and due to more rumors than proof (just like Saddam) some here have decided Prabowo was to blame and nothing said will change their mind. Some overseas group up until very recently were still calling Wiranto’s head nit tot his day I have never heard of any overseas organization calling for Prabowo’s. Maybe this is because there is no proof of all of these rumors going around.

      • PakLe

        More than just rumor. Suggest you read his wikipedia page as a starting point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prabowo_Subianto – see the ‘fall from grace’ bit.

        • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

          Pak, who really uses Wiki as a 100% true reliable source, anyone can become an editor under an assumed name in Wiki. If you had a page in Wiki anyone can write anything on there they want too. I always take Wiki with a grain of salt but if you want to support someone else then is obviously your right and I would never deny anyone of their right here but then who you going call, GhostBusters?

          I mean who is left, I will ask you the same question I asked Valkyrie, if Jokowi decided against running then who of the candidates right now that have enough support, financial as well as nationwide resources to win? Who would you go with, these candidates to choose from right now are a sorry lot and we all know do not care for the country. So who would you go with to save you from a man whom I believe wants to come back and show he can redeem himself in the eyes of the country and help the country from where it is now.

          • devine

            Wiki: “In 2000, Prabowo became the first person to be denied entry into the United States under the provisions of the United Nations Convention against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. A combination of “foreign policy considerations, a reasonable belief that he was involved in the riots which devastated Jakarta in 1998 and coincidental timing” were reason put forwarded for the visa ban”
            So Dewi, you are saying that the US were just making this up…?

          • Wong Edan

            You miss the point again. Wiki is not the source. The 58 references listed at the bottom of the article are the source. You are running out of arguments to defend this man…

      • Wong Edan

        “Prabowo never violated my human rights”. In one revealing sentence you show why this country is in such a mess. This individualistic stance is seen too often here. Sad. Sad.

        • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

          The most ironic statement I have seen here in a while.

          • Wong Edan

            Looks like you didn’t understand it then…

        • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

          “This individualistic stance is seen too often here.”

          Yes you are right, I am amazed on how many business people in Kota, Kebon Jeruk and BSD share this attitude as well.

      • Dezmond Edison Christian

        Dewi – there is plenty of evidence if you care to look for it

    • Pelan2

      @Lady – do you think that the present RI-1 is much different from Prabowo??
      If Bunter can be RI-1, why not Prabowo??? The present one has done absolutely zero when it comes to human right, or anything else for that matter..
      If Jokowi is smart, he will NOT run next year. I can not see any other candidate that could swing this country around but Prabowo. What he has been accused of doing in the past will easily be forgiven by Presidents and Prime Ministers who will display a quick memory loss if it suits them. Indonesia being what it is, need a “strongman” to turn this mess around. Whether that man is Prabowo is left to be seen. Alternatives are Mega, ABR, Hatta… all names that does not inspire anything…

      • LadyBuggers

        Yes, and Prabowo is even worse than he is. SBY is just a mere kitten compared to this atrocious lunatic. If you saw first hand his handiwork, you would not even think about cobsidering him as a human being

  • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

    Wong, I am not going to argue with you about this but some people in that ethinic group do it too themselves and all over money. I am having a problem right now with one such individual. 10 years ago this contractor did extensive renovations on a 450 sqm house we bought, He did such a fantastic job, the best we could not have been happier it was great and he did n excellent job. So last year when we wanted to build a 550sqm house we again called him and he was really nice until he got the DP and then instead of using his own guys he hired the cheapest of the cheapest subcontractors, he did a terrible job and took advantage of us all the time smiling at our face and stabbing us in the back. We were hampered at the time becuase my better half has just returned from a 3 month stay in Gleneagles hospital in Singapore and while he was recuperating with limited mobility he truly screwed us. After we moved in and saw how bad the quality really was he avoided us for 3 months and then we contacted him via lawyer and he came hoping becuase he knew the next place we would go was tothe neighborhood he lives in and has built many quality house and he holds a consideralbe amount of respect from those people so he did want his reputation tarnished. We moved out of our new house 3 months while he came in and re-did all of his screwups and he still did not get it right the second time around. Now we are still holding about 5% of the total cost for the house of his money and he is still fighting over this and my better hald says fix the house and you get paid 100% then the excuses come out blah blah blah. He keeps screwing with us we are going to his church in BSD and his neighborhood and show them pictures of what work he does for Muslims who do not live in that neighborhood or are part of that ethnic group because he still does excelllent work for them..

    • Wong Edan

      You can’t see it can you? You keep repeating two horrible errors. First you blame all ethnic Chinese for the alleged wrongdoings of a few, then you blame the victims for the crime. It is never the fault of the victim – or do you think that rape is sometimes the fault of the woman? It’s almost as if your mind has been corrupted by the person you’re supporting in your other comments…

      • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

        Ok so way do you continue ot repeat one horrible error made by many on one terrible day in May 1998? You want to have your cake and eat it too.

  • TalkingEid

    Dewi you do disappoint me this time – you seem to be blaming the victims for ‘bringing it on themselves’ – please tell me I am wrong.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

      Well if people get kicked so many times they are going to
      revolt and the kicker is usually the one they go after but in 98 it turned nasty on Thursday as retribution was cast on an entire ethnic group which was entirely unfair but the people that joined the original attack went after anyone and everyone they thought were to blame for their misfortunes.

      I have cut and paste the same point here I made to Valkyrie
      on another thread today: I believe some have forgotten where some of this hostility comes from when discussing this subject, if you were a pre-bumi Indonesian growing up from a tike to a young man back in the 1960′s 70′s 80′s and 90′s and heard your mother complain in your home at least once a week every week about the high price of garlic and how the production, sales and importation of this vegetable/herb was all controlled for all of Indonesia by one man who was never even born in the Republic of Indonesia, would you get a bad taste in your
      mouth? Personally for me that that happened was due to a serious misstep by Suharto but then he was a man of his word and if he owed a debt (the man in question helped him get arms in the 40′s to fight the Japanese) and he did pay his debts overtime but I think he paid too high of a price. When I worked in Singapore in the early 80′s we had Indonesian workers who were returning to Indonesia and would constantly come in and ask before going back home where they could buy good quality low priced garlic to take back home, it truly made me sad to see these hard workers to have to resort to this due to one man
      controlling everything that had to do with the production of garlic.

      I don’t know about any of you but I listened to my mother and took in all she said and she taught me, as I grew older I learned to take some things she said with a grain of salt and I did start to understand why she said other things but she was an educated woman so I can see where some hostility would have built up over the years of that particular issue being talked about on the streets by all the common man each and every week. All it take is one bad apple to taint the barrel or at least make the barrel look bad and I beleive that is why some hold the attitude they hold now but if Jokowi sptepped down tomorow I would welcome Basuki in until he proved not worthy of my support.

      • MadWorld

        Read your comment twice.
        According to you,the dismal economy of Indonesia was caused by a certain group of individuals, lets cut the chase, the chinese minority, causing the garlic price to sky-rocket and causing the misfortune of 80% of the population. I like to tell you dear Dewi that your neigbour, Singapore, has no garlic plantation ,nor drink water, almost everything are imported, excepting their management skill, & secularism.
        It was and it is still the same in 2013, an economy of a country is linked/controlled by a conglomerate of multinationals, usually not a pribumi (In the 60 this is called colonialism>imperialism,just a change of name). The business contract to buy, to get a licence in Indonesia are in the hand of high-ranking political official, the beef import licence in the hand of Moslim party.etc.
        Every sector of the Indonesian economy are in the hands of cronies. It is not the chinese to be blamed for the rotting basket of apples, the rot apple is in the hand of the corrupt puppet of the Indonesian Kartels ( PRIBUMI mostly, & hypocritical moslim) .
        Excepting few non corrupt individuals the Jokowi -Ahok kartel.

        • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

          LOL Mad, I did not say that but that is what some Indonesians from the era think. I said it was one individual who totally controlled the garlic trade in Indonesia and that person was legally boirn in China and he was originally a Chinese citizen. Yes very true in the 60′s Suharto made too many deals with certain people.

          Now days most in govt. could careless who is getting what license or takingover what as long as they hold an Indonesian passport and they have the asking price (above table and under table cash) for said license then the deal is done.

          • KuciKoo

            Dewi, you are totally ignoring the system in place in Indonesia. The money (earned dodgy or clean) gets passed up the chain to the benefactor… and the person at the top of the main pyramid in Indonesia is not an orang tionghoa… the pribumi presidents and the pribumi DPR have made billions from the cukongs and ordinary people. Plain and simple. Unfortunately, the poor don’t have the ability to decipher who is really stealing their hard earned money and can only see the person behind the cash register charging high prices for basic goods… the bags of money delivered to the DPR and RI1 (through cronies) are only now starting to be uncovered because there are so many paper bags being handed over….

  • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

    I will still stand behind Prabowo, I think as some others do that things have gotten out of control and this country needs a strong leader that more or less controls the excesses of the DPR and stop them running amuk. But if Jokowi was elected president he would not bend but he would never accomplish anything because he is too nice a man to actually scare the crap out of any DPR member. Sooner rather than later once he started to be real pain in the side of certain DPR members I feel he would go the Gus Dur route and be impeached as an example to others who dare challenge them.

    As for Mega I agree the woman needs some of Jokowi’s likability to rub off on her but even the fellow in the sticks do not buy her act anymore. And as you have already said in another post that yes I as well doubt that Jokowi would let her use him in anyway and he would not lower himself to that level for anyone.

    • bbruce

      Dewi, You appear to be in the same mindset as my former Indonesian students who used to think Hitler and Suharto were good rulers because “people were afraid of them.”

      Perhaps countries with older democracies than your own realize that the people should control the government, as opposed to the government controlling the people.

      And that’s where Jokowi succeeded as Mayor of Solo. (Sadly, I left Indonesia just before he became governor of Jakarta.)

  • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

    But would you say that to his face?

    • Wong Edan

      No. Bad things happen to people who disagree with him….Perhaps you should do some research. Start by googling “tim mawar”. Also I notice you don’t deny he was thrown out of the army.

  • Valkyrie1604

    I know what you meant by cowboys and indians. Sins of the fathers?

    Jokowi does not require a “bodyguard.” I am confident he will be capable of handling himself. ALL men have great ambitions. Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Hannibal, Alexander the Great, Hitler etc., etc., Tragic endings awaited them all ultimately. Can’t tell why.

    To say that we know Jokowi well, is lying to ourselves.

    and,

    To say that Prabowo will use strong hands/iron fists is also lying to ourselves.

    We all want to believe. It’s so human. We were all fooled by SBY when he vied for the second term. Let me refer to Sun Tzu ance again:

    “All warfare is based on deception.”

    We cast our views and opinions predicating on what we supposedly know. But, do we really know if it’s the truth or lies?

    Let’s try being realists for a moment. “No serious realist should claim that power is its own justification” – anonymous writer.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

      All well and true statements Val, now hypothetically lets say Jokowi stays true to his word of a month or so ago and does not run for preseident and let’s say Prabowo would drop out as well then who among the ones most likely to garner the financial and campaign support needed to run a presidential campaign to win would you want to see elected the next president?

      I have asked myself that question and that is why I still see Prabowo as the lesser of all of the other devious calculating evils around. I beleive he wants to show people what he can achieve and hopefully use his ex-father-in-law as an example as how to lead this country better country.

      • Valkyrie1604

        DON’T take statements from politicians for granted. This time I will deliberately disagree with the norm about ” better with the devil you know.”

        Are you aware that Prabowo has been declared Persona non Grata by the U.S. government? I acknowledge the ability of the U.S.A’ in gathering authentic intelligence.

        Do you also know that Col. (Inf) Pramono Edhie Wibowo in 1999 commanded Kopassus Group V (anti terrorist) which slipped into Deli on 5th of September 1999 the day before Bishop Belo’s house was attacked? Naturally, no details of human rights abuse was recorded. ( I outsourced this data) Why am I telling you this? PEW’s boss at that time was Prabowo.

        Now, would you agree with “all warfare is based on deception?”

        They all at one time or another will surely lie.

        NOTE:

        Bishop Belo together with Jose Ramos received the Nobel Peace prize in 1996

        • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

          All good points Val, no I do not know if true or untrue but then his oppenents should brign this up during th election camaign and let the people judge for themselves. Could you supple a weblink showing Prabowo is currently persona non grata in the US as I could not find it via Google.

          I did not see it listed anywhere here either but I am not saying it is not true but I would like to see some verification on it: http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/archive/former-general-prabowo-gets-poll-boost-in-bid-for-indonesian-presidency/

          Val, you remind me of someone, roughly, do you live in JKT or somewhere closer to Ubud?

    • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

      No Val the 2 brothers were actually playing cowboys and Indians in the main home of the top man at 3 or 4 in the morning. What do kids do when they play cowboys and Indians. If I remember correctly it was just before or right after Xmas and I will never forget when Suharto made the announcement that she was dead, he had the younger brother sitting right beside him and the others in the background. These fellows were playing cowboys and Indians for keeps.

    • Bruce Baggett

      TS is Tommy Suharto. The “cowboys and Indians” story must be a way to avoid saying that Indonesians believe Tommy shot their mother, Ibu Tien, during an altercation which included her trying to disarm Tommy.

      Add that to the fact that Suharto agreed to her cremation (which goes against his stated religious preference).

  • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

    There is nothing that I have said in this thread or any other that I meant as racist, I do not think that way. But yes you are true and correct in what you say about the military, but if you are president of a country as large, diversified and spreadout as Indonesia is then they are sort of like your wife or husband, can’t live with them and can’t livw without them.

    • TalkingEid

      Dewi – you write sense usually – but please look at some of your statements here “some people in that ethinic group do it too themselves and all over money.” ……”taking advantage primarially of the Pre-Bumi population” ….. “I also am aware of why the carnage took place and why a specific ethnic group was targeted.”
      Sorry to say say it but you are starting to sound like racist.

      • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

        Or maybe I know of some that have cheated this country out of so much money it woulkd make your head swim. I have seen certain individuals import items they owed hundreds of millions of tax on but pay a pittance of that in money behind the back to get it in. Where does it come from the goods are obtained from many 1st rate companies overseas imported in to duty free Singapore then re-invoiced making it look like the goods were being bought from a Singaporean company so that the price paid here after landing is just above the legal tax rate and the huge profit that have is paid to Singapore and subject to a smaller tax rate. This particular family has produced over 400,000 of the fake 3kg LPG canisters as well as got the military to run farmers off their land in Kalimantan so they could start a palm oil; plantation.

        But if you or anyone here beleive I am a racist then say it and I will stop posting tomorrow.

        • Bruce Baggett

          Dewi, How can you blame the Chinese for going into business when their right to attend university was limited and they were denied the right to hold positions as police, army, or politicians. What other option did they have other than earning 100,000rph a month and a bag of rice for joining the ranks of teachers.

          You seem to be claiming that these “foreign” business entities were cheats, but it was Soharto and his team of miscreants that encouraged it.

          A former Indo-Chinese employer of mine said bureaucracy was “better” under Soeharto because “you always knew how to get things done.”

          The Chinese population were not empowered to create the systems under which the government operated–all they could do was abide by what they became expected to do.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

    Hi Roland, I have not heard the 1st rumor but I have heard the second. If the 1st is true then I have no idea why Suharto gave TS almost anything he wanted after Ibu died. I heard the sotry from a good source and I still beleive the cowboys and Indians becuase at that same time those 2 were fighting over various differnet business ventures. In business terms, after she died there seemed to be no limit to how much the kids were given.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

    well if proven then why is he not ijn jail or why did not trial take place or was it all just swept under the rug. I think it boils down to what you want to beleive and not what the truth might be. I beleive Kopassus has used Prabowo as a scapegoat after Suharo stepped down for all of their problems that were haunting them and they thought with him stepping down then who was going to cover for them once the international community got involved in Hababie crumpled under international pressure.

    But you do not want to vote or support Prabowo it is your choice please tell us all if Jokowi does not or cannot run then who are you going to step up and say has your support from the sorry bunch of candidates now that are going to be running.

    • TalkingEid

      “if proven then why is he not ijn jail or why did not trial take place”? – because his feudal clan won’t allow it – you seem to have a touching faith in the Indonesian legal system Dewi. But at least if this butcher you admire becomes President we will be saved some travel expenses – I doubt he will dare set foot in any country where justice cannot be bought, for fear he will be dragged in front of an honest court to answer for his many many crimes against Indonesia and East Timor.

      • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

        But you do not want to vote or support Prabowo it is your choice please
        tell us all if Jokowi does not or cannot run then who are you going to
        step up and say has your support from the sorry bunch of candidates now
        that are going to be running. Who is your man or woman that you hope leads Indonesia to glory?

    • Botak

      Wiranto for sure is wanted by Den Haag, about Prabowo I’m not sure, but could be too. In Wiranto (wipping out an entire village in Timor Timor) case about 20 small officers had to take the blame and got a few years behind bars.

      The Indonesian law system is a total failure if it comes to the Army.

      But anyway, would be nice to have President who might get arrested on his first trip outside of Indonesia..

    • bbruce

      Indonesian politicians don’t get sent to jail, they travel to Mecca. (Sorry, but it’s true.)

      • Bruce Baggett

        Sorry, I should have said “politicians at that time. . .”

  • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

    Botak, as already said by someone in one of these threads there is no way any of us can read the mind of anyone so if elected we do not know what any individual will do once elected. But personally with everything I hear publicly and privately I understand Prabowo wants to make amends for any wrong doing, feels he has been setup and lied about by certain people and made a scapegoat of, he wants to prove to people he is different fromw hat some percieve him to be, I am willing to give him a chance.

    Who are you going to back if not Prabowo if Jokowi doe snot run? Come on stop putting down my choice if you guys do not have a decent alternative that you know very little about and what you do know about the people you would rather have not heard the details about the possible next president of this country. Come on, Stand Up and be heard.

    • Botak

      It’s your choice! My choice would be the Jokowi. In my opinion the last Indonesia needs is again somebody with Military background. What Indonesia needs is somebody wit background in human beings. Somebody who shows and set examples.

      Sometimes I really have the feeling that the whole system here is based on cari muka and abuse. Kids are getting abused, and when they grow up the try to seek a position were they can abuse, and this loops all over again and again. Authorities, especially Military, Police and the Justice system are abusing their powers everyday. Teachers etc.

      Jokowi is the only one I saw who is willing to forget about his position and lead by example. Talk is cheap, It’s what we do that counts. People here have a tendency to talk to much because of already mention cari muka.

      But that’s my choice. You got yours and have my.

  • MadWorld

    Your hair loss means you are a thinker, agreed to your comment

  • Dezmond Edison Christian

    To balance – I would suggest a vote for him is a serious regression even Indonesia cannot pull off – don’t do it – stand up for your rights as a women, as a human being –
    You can dress a turnip in a suit – but underneath its still a turnip

  • Dezmond Edison Christian

    After you give the keys of the hen hut to the fox – do not be surprised or cry help help when he eats all your chickens leaving a trail of blood and sinews behind him

    • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

      I beleive Prabowo wants redemption and to prove to the Indonesian people and the rest of the world that he can do right by this country.

      • Wong Edan

        So you admit he needs redemption? Why take the risk?

    • Botak

      I’m not surprised or cry help when the fox eats all my chickens. As the good thing about decisions, they are never going to be perfect. We always have 2 or more choices, but they aren’t perfect. so I decide something happens, I get another 2 choices, I choose (decide) again……. and this continues until I die. Isn’t that nice? It’s never going be boring in live.

      • Dezmond Edison Christian

        Botak – insane reasoning

        The truth is the choices we have appear to be the lion, the tiger or the fox – the sloth is set to retire

        The lion beats his chest then sends his women out to do the dirty…
        The Tiger lives on former glories and lives a very paranoid elusive life and is near extinction
        The fox however is active, alert for all possibilities and will kill and store food – burying the dead for another days meal. It is a cunning and tricky beast

        I cannot see Prabowo as anything other than he is

        • Botak

          I never said choose Prabowo. I’m total against him as some of my post stated below.

          But it’s also not me to tell others who they should vote for. That wouldn’t be democratic. I recommended only that Dewi should gather as much as possible info’s about several candidates, and than evaluate them one by one (objective and neutral), and choose the best choice for her. I assume if somebody got his head in the right, he/she will figure out that Prabowo MIGHT isn’t a good choice.

          Being insane is sometimes good for me, not so much to worry about. It keeps me healthy an fit.

          • Dezmond Edison Christian

            you musty be very healthy and fit

          • Dirk

            “To tell others who they should vote for” is the meaning of democracy. To force them is the way of dictators, strongmen, and generals.

  • TalkingEid

    pathetic. Unable to show us how ‘wonderful’ the butcher you favour is, you throw your toys from the pram. Another candidate for Gus Dur’s kindergarden.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

      The samething that happened to Gus Dur will happen to Jokowi, he will be impeached by the DPR for trying to mess witht heir rice bowl. Give the DPR someone to be scared of.

      • Wong Edan

        Gus Dur was impeached by the DPR, but with the help and support of the “army” who didn’t like the way he was opposing their plans to increase bloodhshed in areas like Ambon..

  • TalkingEid

    maybe he can ‘seek redemption’ without the rest of us having to pay for it – in cash and blood.

  • Wong Edan

    Are you related to him or something? He ran away to Jordan like the coward he is after he was booted out of the army, and to imply he is blameless is ludicrous. By the way, where did all his money come from?

  • Dirk

    I don’t think she understands why Prabowo is Problematic to say the least. For example, he would need special diplomatic status to enter nations that acknowledge human rights.
    Why she played the gender card to cover her ignorance is a mystery.

    • Valkyrie1604

      Soft spot perhaps?

  • Bruce Baggett

    MadWorld, This is how it happened in the eyes of an expat that was new to Jakarta at the time, and spent every waking minute with locals.

    Suharto was in Egypt on a state visit. The story on the street was that Prabowo (his son-in-law) and Wiranto were in control of different divisions of the army. One (or the other) wanted to prove that they were most capable of overseeing the entire military, so they (singular) created a diversion in which they could call in their troops. The diversion spread to different parts of the city. Now, it became a war between army divisions as they battled to prove who could best control the populace.

    Now, 1998 was the first time many of us heard about El Nino. Indonesia was suffering SEVERE drought and the price of rice and produce was increasing EVERY day.

    At the same time, George Soros’ massive sell off of Thai baht (I believe) affected other Asian currencies. The rupiah started to tumble (from 2,300 per US dollar to 12,000 in the course of a few weeks). Indonesian business had been operating on loans and non-existent and over-valued collateral, and they started calling in their debts. But while their debts were in American dollars, their profits were in rupiah.

    So, prices had to rise. Prices of imported goods and gas also had to increase because they were based on the US dollar. If you walked into a grocery store at that time, ALL the product would be systematically pulled off the shelves (some items more than once a week) while they were re-ticketed. On top of this, it is common practice to increase the retail price of stock to reflect the wholesale price OF THE NEXT DELIVERY. So shopkeepers were able to gouge an extra 4-5cents on all product being sold.

    The third situation was the recent re-election of Suharto. He had been re-elected just weeks before with 80% of government support. He was on the radio thanking the populace for their support and claiming he “didn’t deserve” such support. (The populace of Tanah Abang and Jakarta’s slums agreed, and I was surprised at how many Indonesians were murmuring about the impossibility of the results.)

    So, the president is at the start of a new term which immediately coincides with the complete destruction of the economy and the astronomical rise of prices of ALL goods. . . . and the flagpole falls over during his inauguration. (Silly I know, but the belief of magic and superstition is so strong here that people believed Suharto was not meant to serve out his full term.)

    And the final event. . . . The students of Trisakti University in Jakarta held an anti-government rally on May 12, 1998. The army was called in and 4 students were killed. (The bullet my studentpicked up afterward was about 3 inches long). It was this event that ultimately triggered the riots on May 13.

    I had totally adopted the life of an Indonesian and was in two of the worst hit areas. I never felt I was in danger (because I was white:(, but I shake and tremble and cry when I recall what I saw there 15 years ago.

  • Dezmond Edison Christian

    Dewi Thompson

    Prabowo has the dubious honor of being the first person to be denied entry into the United States under the provisions of the United Nations Convention against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

    FACT – you can read around it if you want there are thousands of articles/reports etc

    Though some may perceive him as the man with the guts required to clean up the rot and corruption in Indonesian politics, the still-warm memory of his cold-blooded transgressions is further stirred up by his braggadocio.

    Forgiving might be a virtue, but forgetting is stupidity.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

      Desmond, I always forgive but I never forget. There are a lot of stories abour Prabowo, some I know are true and others were stories made against Prabowo for past atrocities carried out by other military personnel.

      What I find interesting is in all of these Prabowo discussions no one ever ever mentions the name of the man that was in charge of the military when these May 1998 riots took place. Some, I assume think Prabowo or Wiranto was in charge but it was actually Feisal Tanjung that was in officially in charge of the military and yet his name never came up during any discussions but less than a week after the riots he was out and on the 23rd of May 1998 Saturday night Prabowo and Wiranto were at Habibie’s house off of Jl. Rasuna Said in the Pertamina housing complex having a heated discussion as to who should be put in charge of the military. That discussion took place as I say it did but everywhere officially it lists Wiranto being made the head of the military on the 21st which is just not true. I wonder why Feisal Tanjung’s name has never came up during any of this so called history involving these riots in May and why was he replaced with Wiranto and put in to the DPR on the 21st of May 1998 as the Minister for Political and Security Affairs in the cabinet.

      Gentlemen unless you can actually get a handle on things as they actually happened here andhow and why during that period you will never be able to really discuss these matters.

      As for Prabowo being banned from the States it was all due to a negotiation and some statements made. But hold on now, didn’t the US invade Iraq due to some statements about Weapons of Mass Destruction or was that just something from the US called a Weapon of Mass Distraction? Was the US invading Iraq due to Israel asking the US to do so or did the Weapons of Mass Destruction come directly from Israel?

      As for Feisal Tanjung, where is he now, heaven or hell, he died around mid-February this year. As for what he was doing besides preparing for things to happen, he transferred over 8 million USD from Bank Bali (what is now know as Bank Permata) a week ahead of the riots.

      • Botak

        Dewi, why are you asking who to vote for, when you already made your mind up. You are defending Prabowo and Wiranto all the way, and it’s in your opinion always somebody or something else who carries the fault.

        You aren’t willing to compare neutral and objective. For you it’s only Prabowo and Prabowo, the Puppet and victim of the politics.

        Sorry but I better don’t waste my time trying to give you tips. It’s a waste of time.

        • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

          LOL you say you are trying to give me tips? What tips, all you are telling to do is not to vote for Prabowo but you refuse to say when I ask the question if excluding Prabowo and Jokowi then who do I vote for but none here has an answer and naively think Jokowi can overcome all.

          The recent story about the benches on Thamrin and Sudirman are just one example of what little that the Jakarta Council is going to let Jokowi do. He will not do anything of significance due to so many politicians that are against him.

          In all honesty what I foresee from this showdown next year and the coming years is Jokowi runs will be chaos and if by some miracle the election is not stolen from Jokowi by a certain coal magnate then he will soon be impeached and the masses will hit the streets all over Indonesia and there will be a new new Order.But then if I could really see in to the future I would be….

          • normalpeople

            well , Prabowo is popular because the others are not, except Jokowi. but unfortunately for your thinking and fortunately for Indonesia, Indonesian voters proved to be less stupid than the politicians think, and are less and less bought…btw, have you met with Prabowo? I did, we discussed for two hours, at his request….I was not impressed to say the least…

          • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

            What did not impress you? What di he say or not say that did not impress you?

          • Botak

            Scroll down, there was the tip I gave you without saying anything against Prabowo. You should read some of the answers sometimes.

        • quas

          There is the possibility that she is part of the propaganda team working for Prabowo’s election campaign. Which is why she has willfully ignored all evidence exposing Prabowo’s sordid past. Even evidences such as Prabowo himself confessing on numerous occasions to have been involved in abductions.

          • Botak

            I thought about this too. But thanks that I’m not alone with this thought.

      • Botak

        Why are you asking who to vote for when you already made your mind up? For you it’s only Prabowo and Prabowo the puppet and victim of the politics.

        You aren’t interested in evaluating neutral and objective.

        Sorry but replying to your post (even if they are friendly) seems to be a waste of time.

      • quas

        Please, don’t use the fact that US lied to invade Iraq and muddle it somehow into they lied about everything else. Because you know what?!?!! SBY was recently awarded by a US interfaith organisation for promoting interfaith tolerance, so maybe in the near future the US human rights group might bestow upon Prabowo an award too. When that glorious day finally arrives, are YOU going to say the US lied to invade Iraq so the human rights award they give to Prabowo was a farce? Nah… HAHAHAHA (too predictable).

        • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

          Quas you are comparing Apples and Oranges it is unfortunate but you seem to have limited resources so I will explain this to you.

          Apples: The US Government made a decision to invade Iraq based on lies. This was a decision by the US Government, no one else.

          Oranges: SBY was awarded with some crap from a PRIVATE Jewish organization and it was paid for and sponsored by a PRIVATE US company that has an established PT company here in Indonesia.

          As for your other statements this is only conjecture and some ill-perceived dream that may or may not happen in the future. I realize today is a holiday and you have probably started early on Wednesday afternoon celebrating the day off on Thursday but please bear in mind when consuming large amounts of mind altering substances that posting is not the right thing to do, for you anyway.

          • quas

            Well, I am not sure but I don’t think government give awards for that sort of stuff, but they do give out praises which is equivalent. On occasion, leaders from the USA, UK and probably Australia have directly praised him or Indonesia (which is to indirectly praise him since he is leading the country) on tolerance.

            As testament to that, no state leader from ANY country has to date condemned him for his inability to stem intolerance or protested when he received that tolerance award from that private organisation.

            It’s not a far-off statement to claim that if the US government did indeed give out awards to other world leaders for promoting tolerance in their country then SBY would qualify.

            Moreover, as aforementioned, the praises have already been bestowed upon SBY and since praises are equivalent to awards, then it can be said that he had received a de facto tolerance award from the US government!

            P.S. I don’t do drugs, but if I do, I would still be more rational than your sober I-got-a-crush-on-Prabowo self.

          • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

            The award was a private award from a private organziation. The US Govt is different from a private organization if you do not understand the differences then ask your Mother or your school teacher to explain it to you.

            Drugs? Exactly what are you youngsters up to these days? Alcohol never came to your mind? Alcohol does not alter the mind? Really?

      • Dezmond Edison Christian

        If Tanjung was running for president then I would comment on him also – but he is not

  • DD

    Joko or anyone else for that matter will be unable to handle the DPR or ministries whilst the corruption runs through the judiciary and the police

    His, or anyone else first priority must be to push through a massive and aggressive program of cleaning up the law. Once that is done (it will never be perfect of course) then the law agencies will in turn deal with the DPR/Business/Ministerial/Religious corruption we witness daily.

    Is Prabowo the man? Well he has shown nothing to suggest his integrity is intact to do it – Big anti corruption words are easy – action is not. If SBY was serious he would have tackled these issues – instead well just look at who he appointed as heads – protectionism 100% as the dirt gets ever closer to the palace

    Prabowo would just follow suit because power is what he seeks and possibly retribution, if its personal revenge then that could create a very nasty TNI/TNI split and be incredibly violent.

    Given his track record Prabowo is an ill wind for Indonesia

    Joko – and I personally do not feel he is ready for 2014 but popular desperation might force it – represents at least a clean break with the past, and that is what many people want

    My view is that violence will be the hallmark of the 2014 elections and that will play into Prabowo’s hands.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

      “Joko or anyone else for that matter will be unable to handle the DPR or
      ministries whilst the corruption runs through the judiciary and the
      police”

      At least one other person see’s that this was my conclusion and continuing to dream about Jokowi is going to come in like Harry Potter and wave his magic wand is just dreaming.

  • DD

    So rather than fight for fairness for all you want the butcher. It is a regressive step. I am guessing you are from a military family

    • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

      I choose Prabowo due to he being the most practical choice.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

    Prabowo is a practical solution and conclussion.

    • Valkyrie1604

      Wish I had a crystal ball. Unfortunately we have to leave this to destiny and trust our hopes and aspirations will favor us.

      Let’s talk about this once again some time in late 2014. In Ubud?

      • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

        LOL Hombre are you really located around Ubud, say in the hills and do you grow maize?

        • Valkyrie1604

          “Hombre” (Brit or Spanish?) What made you feel I’m around Ubud? Love pop corns though.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

    If you truly beleive that then should’nt all of the western companies currently investing in to Indonesia be warned what type of atmosphere they are investing in and supporting?

    • quas

      Capitalism is good for business. What warning?

  • Valkyrie1604

    Dewi, I am residing in Jakarta and to be precise, the South of it for quite some time. It’s a love and hate situation.

    Someone apparently screwed up with my (original) nick. I have been posting under “Valkyrie” for quite a while. Moreover, in this instance, it’s the lyrics and not the songwriter.

    “Little Hitlers”…..nice! We do have some around, you know?

    • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

      Val, on the city side of the ringroad or the south side. We used to live in Bukit Cinere 16 years ago but the commute was a pain (cannot even imagine what it would be like now) and once the finances were saved we moved to this side of the ringroad and have not left.

      Yes that expat forum has an American owner that has not lived here in 20 years yet she rakes in ad fees for her Expats in Indonesia forum and here chief moderator likes to ban people if they show more knowledge than he. He also said he had a Masters in Law and a Masters Business from France but he came here to Indonesia to give free Indonesian legal advice to expats on a forum he said he does not get paid for and works here but has a wife sponsored KITAS for which he is not allowed to work. Little Hitlers indeed.

  • TalkingEid

    For sure he is – he caused the murder of over 6,000,000 Jews – but hey he never abused YOUR human rights so it doesn’t matter right?

    • quas

      Furthermore, if elected, Hitler would be able to rule firmly like a real man should and the DPR would not dare to impeach him and, most importantly, he also seemed like he needed to be given the second chance to redeem himself.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dewi.thompson.9 Dewi Thompson

      Talking if you feel so strongly about it then get up and stop “talking” and start helping the opposition to stop Prabowo from running next year or STFU.

      • TalkingEid

        I see you are emulating your hero The Butcher – anyone who disagrees with you should STFU. Now I understand why you favour a fascist in charge.

  • Valkyrie1604

    Stop grumbling else it’ll make you old real fast.

  • Botak

    Maybe there ISN’T anyone to be recommended in the moment. People lost faith in the politicians. They aren’t backseat drivers. Many who are replying here are foreigners, not allowed to vote. But the most of them know how to get from A to B. It’s already a task for an Bule to reside legal in Indonesia.

    I’m one of these “Orang Bule” here, and there are many things here I might don’t understand, but I always say to myself “What is right for 200 Million Indonesians can’t be wrong for one guy like me” (Actually that’s more about eating “Nasi”) but I also use it for other things.

    Maybe try asking yourself, If there are 20 people here against Prabowo, are they all wrong? I never tried to proof you wrong, and so many others, we only raised our opinion,about Prabowo.

    But I guess in your eyes we are all stupid backseat drivers who are all wrong and you got a patent for wisdom.

    There are many here were we don’t know their achievements in live, and you take the right to call them Backseat drivers? Sorry, but you lost a lot of respect with this statement. (But why bother I’m only a stupid Bule)

  • quas

    He had access to nuclear weapons, but he didn’t use it. That shows how much restraint he had, don’t you think? Surely such restraint is good grounds for an award?

    But I don’t care whether or not Kim gets awarded, all I’m saying is if somehow he got the peace award from a private organisation such as the Nobel Prize committee, the US would surely protest it. That’s because the US does not see Kim as worthy of having that award. The fact that they do not protest SBY receiving that tolerance award means they approve of it, albeit silently. What’s the difference between approving the award given by someone else and giving the same award yourself?

    Anyway, I am only bringing this up, because I see an amusing angle in this, and certainly not that I need an “accurate assessment”* from you.Your logic dictates that if the US lied about one thing (Iraq War), they must consistently lie about everything else. What if everything else includes the US giving Prabowo a human rights award (or approving of a similar award given to him by a private organisation), are you still going to stick with your logic?

    * (HAHAHA, very funny, btw. “Accurate assessment” from a Prabowo fan? HeeHeeHee HoHoHo XD LOL ROTFLMAO )

  • sunlife

    Hey, Yanto: How would you feel if your children were kidnapped, tortured and murdered? That’s what Prabowo does. He is a scoundrel with a vile temper. He is corrupt, Several executives of Genrindra have quit because they felt Prabowo was behaving like Hitler and happy with corrupt lackeys. As a so-called journalist writing for a newspaper, it is your duty to inform the public. You should warn people that Prabowo is a wicked monster. Do you want to see Indonesia return to a dictatorship? If you think Prabowo will curb corruption, you are an imbecile. Can’t the Globe find any writers with ethics to oppose brutal military monsters?

  • Bruce Baggett

    My friend’s mother said 1998 was even worse than 1965.

  • haganavila

    –…If Megawati is smart, she doesn’t run — as she would surely lose….– but Megawati will definitely run because she is never known for her cleverness. She relied heavily on the big name of his father, the first president of Indonesia, Soekarno.

  • The investor

    If you look at how Hashim (who is the main donor for Prabowo) managed to ‘steal’ USD250 mn from Semen Cibinong’s invesors and also how he managed not to pay BLBI (Bantuan Likuiditas Bank Indonesia), I doubt that Prabowo would be able to set up a clean government. It is more a lip service for Indonesian people who are sick of corruption. You have to look at a candidate’s track record, not his promise.

  • James Lee

    Prabowo Subianto dare to say that their riots in 1998 that caused so many lives to be lost and so many women and girls raped were “for the greater good”?

    Search in Wikipedia for “May 1998 riots of Indonesia”

    This Prabowo murderer should be on trial for war against humanity – not fit to be a President!